Homemade super-capacitors
Carbon_Rod, Sun Jul 19 2015, 10:43PMIs there a better documented source of information regarding this process?
It seems a little unclear exactly what is being constructed.
Cheers,
Rod
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Conundrum, Sat Aug 29 2015, 06:56AM
Yes, this is a real thing.
Since the original discovery of laser generated graphene people have been modifying old Lightscribe drives to do this.
In fact, a UV laser is even better and a simple X-Y setup can be made for less than £100.
See Marcel Lenormand's DIY etcher
One thing I did find is that even a small change (ie different substrate, electrolyte, etc) can massively impact the results.
I found that a good way to get started with supercaps is to use aquarium carbon (activated charcoal) and this isn't particularly expensive.
Conundrum, Sat Aug 29 2015, 06:56AM
Yes, this is a real thing.
Since the original discovery of laser generated graphene people have been modifying old Lightscribe drives to do this.
In fact, a UV laser is even better and a simple X-Y setup can be made for less than £100.
See Marcel Lenormand's DIY etcher
One thing I did find is that even a small change (ie different substrate, electrolyte, etc) can massively impact the results.
I found that a good way to get started with supercaps is to use aquarium carbon (activated charcoal) and this isn't particularly expensive.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
radiotech, Fri Sept 11 2015, 02:47PM
From the first video (excellent !) One part said, un ripping scouring pads
gives us fine iron wires.
Were those scouring pads stainless steel ?
radiotech, Fri Sept 11 2015, 02:47PM
From the first video (excellent !) One part said, un ripping scouring pads
gives us fine iron wires.
Were those scouring pads stainless steel ?
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
hen918, Fri Sept 11 2015, 05:02PM
well, I've never heard of a iron scouring pad, that would be very bad idea. It must be stainless steel.
hen918, Fri Sept 11 2015, 05:02PM
radiotech wrote ...
From the first video (excellent !) One part said, un ripping scouring pads
gives us fine iron wires.
Were those scouring pads stainless steel ?
From the first video (excellent !) One part said, un ripping scouring pads
gives us fine iron wires.
Were those scouring pads stainless steel ?
well, I've never heard of a iron scouring pad, that would be very bad idea. It must be stainless steel.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Ash Small, Fri Sept 11 2015, 06:30PM
Ash Small, Fri Sept 11 2015, 06:30PM
hen918 wrote ...
well, I've never heard of a iron scouring pad
well, I've never heard of a iron scouring pad
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
hen918, Fri Sept 11 2015, 08:37PM
I have some steel wool, however it isn't a pad, and it isn't iron.
I was thinking of a device for cleaning cookware, so I take your point.
hen918, Fri Sept 11 2015, 08:37PM
Ash Small wrote ...
hen918 wrote ...
well, I've never heard of a iron scouring pad
well, I've never heard of a iron scouring pad
I have some steel wool, however it isn't a pad, and it isn't iron.
I was thinking of a device for cleaning cookware, so I take your point.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Ash Small, Fri Sept 11 2015, 11:05PM
It's low carbon steel, so not very different to iron in it's characteristics. It does come in pads, like 'Brillo pads' but without the soap impregnation.
What I saw in the video looked like stainless, so I'd like some clarification of the principles as well.
Ash Small, Fri Sept 11 2015, 11:05PM
It's low carbon steel, so not very different to iron in it's characteristics. It does come in pads, like 'Brillo pads' but without the soap impregnation.
What I saw in the video looked like stainless, so I'd like some clarification of the principles as well.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
radiotech, Sun Sept 13 2015, 07:05AM
How do know it is a super capacitor? The math at the end would work with
a storage battery, renamed as a 'supercap'.
radiotech, Sun Sept 13 2015, 07:05AM
How do know it is a super capacitor? The math at the end would work with
a storage battery, renamed as a 'supercap'.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Bored Chemist, Sun Sept 13 2015, 09:28AM
dV/dQ
Bored Chemist, Sun Sept 13 2015, 09:28AM
dV/dQ
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
radiotech, Sun Sept 13 2015, 06:19PM
The plastering mesh looks shiny, and it must interact with plaster in way that
maintains strength with destroying or corroding the metal.
Exact details of the alloy/coating would be good to know.
Also, does the sodium hydroxide go down through the carbon
and form two couples, one on the positive plate, and one on the negative ?
Given that the two electrodes are identical and separated by a porous insulator
the chemistry is two carbon surfaces in Sodium Hydroxide, or is at the metal
-carbon ?
After the initial current limited charge, what has happened to make
one plate more electro positive than the other?
This cycle is reversible obviously.
I picked up an old (real) book and flipped to Energy in Concentration Cells.
Not happy reading.
If this Tic-Tac battery is a copy of a commercial product, perhaps someone
could dig up a patent number. That might help. If they do make such a cell,
they wont tell anyone how.
radiotech, Sun Sept 13 2015, 06:19PM
The plastering mesh looks shiny, and it must interact with plaster in way that
maintains strength with destroying or corroding the metal.
Exact details of the alloy/coating would be good to know.
Also, does the sodium hydroxide go down through the carbon
and form two couples, one on the positive plate, and one on the negative ?
Given that the two electrodes are identical and separated by a porous insulator
the chemistry is two carbon surfaces in Sodium Hydroxide, or is at the metal
-carbon ?
After the initial current limited charge, what has happened to make
one plate more electro positive than the other?
This cycle is reversible obviously.
I picked up an old (real) book and flipped to Energy in Concentration Cells.
Not happy reading.
If this Tic-Tac battery is a copy of a commercial product, perhaps someone
could dig up a patent number. That might help. If they do make such a cell,
they wont tell anyone how.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Ash Small, Sun Sept 13 2015, 09:10PM
Maybe it's actually something similar to a zinc-carbon battery, that shiny coating could be zinc, and zinc carbon batteries, contrary to popular belief, can be re-charged, to a point.
Ash Small, Sun Sept 13 2015, 09:10PM
Maybe it's actually something similar to a zinc-carbon battery, that shiny coating could be zinc, and zinc carbon batteries, contrary to popular belief, can be re-charged, to a point.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
radiotech, Mon Sept 14 2015, 02:29AM
The whole structure of a dry cell, from the smallest to giant ones is
to make contact with the electrolyte paste between the carbon and the zinc.
The thing that killed them off was the inadvertent mercury content of one of the
chemicals. (MnO2 ?).
The concentration cell stuff I looked at mentioned it worked because the membrane
was able to cause a different concentration on either side, and the voltage was proportional
to the ratio.
Perhaps the active carbon has the property of making the porous separator act the same
way in the Tic-Tac cell.
So, what if we took a fresh D cell *, pulled the center rod out, reduced its diameter,
in a (messy) lathe and wrapped it in a porous coating, infused with powdered active
carbon, and stuck it back in the battery after soaking it NaOH drain cleaner ?
If the battery was good to start with, and we shorted it through a resistor, we would
have 1.5 volts to charge the ''supercap' part. If this worked, the initial current would fall
to zero as the supercap charged to dry cell's voltage.
At this point, perhaps metal rods could be driven into the carbon powder from the
top to get at the supercap voltage . I think the center carbon rod would now be negative,
and the metal rods positive.
*a #6 dry cell would make it more easy and interesting.
radiotech, Mon Sept 14 2015, 02:29AM
The whole structure of a dry cell, from the smallest to giant ones is
to make contact with the electrolyte paste between the carbon and the zinc.
The thing that killed them off was the inadvertent mercury content of one of the
chemicals. (MnO2 ?).
The concentration cell stuff I looked at mentioned it worked because the membrane
was able to cause a different concentration on either side, and the voltage was proportional
to the ratio.
Perhaps the active carbon has the property of making the porous separator act the same
way in the Tic-Tac cell.
So, what if we took a fresh D cell *, pulled the center rod out, reduced its diameter,
in a (messy) lathe and wrapped it in a porous coating, infused with powdered active
carbon, and stuck it back in the battery after soaking it NaOH drain cleaner ?
If the battery was good to start with, and we shorted it through a resistor, we would
have 1.5 volts to charge the ''supercap' part. If this worked, the initial current would fall
to zero as the supercap charged to dry cell's voltage.
At this point, perhaps metal rods could be driven into the carbon powder from the
top to get at the supercap voltage . I think the center carbon rod would now be negative,
and the metal rods positive.
*a #6 dry cell would make it more easy and interesting.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Ash Small, Mon Sept 14 2015, 10:11AM
The carbon in a zinc-carbon battery plays no part in the reaction itself, it's just there as an 'inert conductor'. The reaction is between the two different metal electrodes, usually zinc and manganese.
I suppose I'm asking if it's possible that one of the metals on the other side of the membrane is acting similar to the manganese in a zinc-manganese battery. I suppose I'll have to re-watch the video and see if I notice anything I didn't notice last time.
I'm assuming the NaOH is suitable as an electrolyte for this type of cell, there are plenty of 'alkaline' batteries available.
The above is just guesswork, I'm just throwing it out there as a suggestion.
Ash Small, Mon Sept 14 2015, 10:11AM
The carbon in a zinc-carbon battery plays no part in the reaction itself, it's just there as an 'inert conductor'. The reaction is between the two different metal electrodes, usually zinc and manganese.
I suppose I'm asking if it's possible that one of the metals on the other side of the membrane is acting similar to the manganese in a zinc-manganese battery. I suppose I'll have to re-watch the video and see if I notice anything I didn't notice last time.
I'm assuming the NaOH is suitable as an electrolyte for this type of cell, there are plenty of 'alkaline' batteries available.
The above is just guesswork, I'm just throwing it out there as a suggestion.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Conundrum, Fri Sept 25 2015, 07:26AM
IIRC the mercury was originally added as a depolarizing agent to reduce the needed amount of expensive MnO2.
Nowadays they have organic compounds to do the same job, one is used to this day in Li-ion cells to prevent oxidation from free oxygen present during manufacture or from active material degradation.
Something happens to the carbon rods in used batteries, if you take a fresh one the resistance is a lot lower than a used.
I think the rod is actually not pure carbon any more but a mixture of carbon, MnO2 and other chemicals that is fired in a kiln like device by the thousand.
Conundrum, Fri Sept 25 2015, 07:26AM
IIRC the mercury was originally added as a depolarizing agent to reduce the needed amount of expensive MnO2.
Nowadays they have organic compounds to do the same job, one is used to this day in Li-ion cells to prevent oxidation from free oxygen present during manufacture or from active material degradation.
Something happens to the carbon rods in used batteries, if you take a fresh one the resistance is a lot lower than a used.
I think the rod is actually not pure carbon any more but a mixture of carbon, MnO2 and other chemicals that is fired in a kiln like device by the thousand.
Re: Homemade super-capacitors
Enceladus, Thu Feb 09 2017, 04:41AM
There are countless DIY dual layer supercap build videos on youtube. This is easily the worst one I have ever seen. The simplest one I've seen involved using credit card sized aluminum plates, activated carbon and phosphoric acid. The construction was symmetrical so there was no way it could have been working by any galvanic action. Just watch a few different videos and you'll get the idea pretty quick.
Enceladus, Thu Feb 09 2017, 04:41AM
There are countless DIY dual layer supercap build videos on youtube. This is easily the worst one I have ever seen. The simplest one I've seen involved using credit card sized aluminum plates, activated carbon and phosphoric acid. The construction was symmetrical so there was no way it could have been working by any galvanic action. Just watch a few different videos and you'll get the idea pretty quick.
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