PLL Eagle Board
EDY19, Sun Oct 01 2006, 06:16PMDoes anyone have a simple PLL based SSTC/DRSSTC board file that they could post so I can play around with EAGLE a little bit? I just got it, and I am used to ExpressPCB, so having somewhere to start and experiment on eagle for a possible upcoming project would be nice. It seems like we have talked about having a PCB database type thing before, and noone seems to have problems with it... Is there a reason that has never been done? If for some reason this is against the board rules, feel free to delete my post, but somewhere to start on EAGLE would be really nice
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Avalanche, Sun Oct 01 2006, 08:48PM
I was going to have a small PCB database on my website for popular things like sstc boards, because I've designed loads but I never got around to it.
I know this isn't Eagle, but if you're interested I have quite a nice little PLL sstc board on my site here. It's a single sided board, and I eventually got it down to only 1 wire link (I never use autorouting!) I only have it in PDF format now, but maybe it could be replicated in Eagle, because I know it needs the frequency limiting resistor adding. It works for small coils very well though as it is.
Avalanche, Sun Oct 01 2006, 08:48PM
I was going to have a small PCB database on my website for popular things like sstc boards, because I've designed loads but I never got around to it.
I know this isn't Eagle, but if you're interested I have quite a nice little PLL sstc board on my site here. It's a single sided board, and I eventually got it down to only 1 wire link (I never use autorouting!) I only have it in PDF format now, but maybe it could be replicated in Eagle, because I know it needs the frequency limiting resistor adding. It works for small coils very well though as it is.
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Marko, Sun Oct 01 2006, 09:07PM
Enjoy your B-day avalanche.... I just wanted to recommend avalanche's board, but it wasn't in eagle format.
I usually do my stuff on perfboard and if I need boards I build them completely manually
as transfer techniques usually mess up (wouldn't be able for more than DIP with very wide and ugly leads).
It's not cool if you can't put SMD on it.
Marko, Sun Oct 01 2006, 09:07PM
Enjoy your B-day avalanche.... I just wanted to recommend avalanche's board, but it wasn't in eagle format.
I usually do my stuff on perfboard and if I need boards I build them completely manually
as transfer techniques usually mess up (wouldn't be able for more than DIP with very wide and ugly leads).It's not cool if you can't put SMD on it.
Re: PLL Eagle Board
EDY19, Mon Oct 02 2006, 01:57AM
Do you have the schematic for that PLL board Avalanche? It looks really nice and I may build it as soon as I get a break from school!
EDY19, Mon Oct 02 2006, 01:57AM
Do you have the schematic for that PLL board Avalanche? It looks really nice and I may build it as soon as I get a break from school!
Re: PLL Eagle Board
..., Mon Oct 02 2006, 02:00AM
The schematic he used was origianlly (to the best of my knowledge) Steve Ward's design, and can be found here
..., Mon Oct 02 2006, 02:00AM
The schematic he used was origianlly (to the best of my knowledge) Steve Ward's design, and can be found here
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Avalanche, Mon Oct 02 2006, 12:48PM
Yes that's the one (steve conners circuit). The board I designed doesn't quite match that schematic though, as it was only intended for tiny coils. I replaced the resistor on pin 11 with a 50k preset, so I could quickly change the board between different coils. This means I also removed the other resistor on pin 12 which limits the frequency! There's also a few more capacitors 'dotted around' the board, wherever I had a long power trace, and I've gone and forgotten to add the UCC clamping diodes as well.
Ideally it needs the resistors putting back to normal, but I found the coil starts up a bit less destructively if you can set the startup frequency to match your coil (I don't have a variac). It seems to behave itself without the frequency limiting as well, but I would probably want to put it back anyway.
Avalanche, Mon Oct 02 2006, 12:48PM
Yes that's the one (steve conners circuit). The board I designed doesn't quite match that schematic though, as it was only intended for tiny coils. I replaced the resistor on pin 11 with a 50k preset, so I could quickly change the board between different coils. This means I also removed the other resistor on pin 12 which limits the frequency! There's also a few more capacitors 'dotted around' the board, wherever I had a long power trace, and I've gone and forgotten to add the UCC clamping diodes as well.
Ideally it needs the resistors putting back to normal, but I found the coil starts up a bit less destructively if you can set the startup frequency to match your coil (I don't have a variac). It seems to behave itself without the frequency limiting as well, but I would probably want to put it back anyway.
Re: PLL Eagle Board
EDY19, Mon Oct 02 2006, 02:21PM
How much do the 1N5819's really effect the UCC? I have heard of people not using them and still not having any problems. Have you had problems, Avalanche? Also, I see that you have a 15V regulator- isn't that the maximum voltage for the HEF4046? Also, the 10 Ohm resistor is removed from that schematic, is there really any purpose for that?
EDY19, Mon Oct 02 2006, 02:21PM
How much do the 1N5819's really effect the UCC? I have heard of people not using them and still not having any problems. Have you had problems, Avalanche? Also, I see that you have a 15V regulator- isn't that the maximum voltage for the HEF4046? Also, the 10 Ohm resistor is removed from that schematic, is there really any purpose for that?
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Avalanche, Mon Oct 02 2006, 02:39PM
I've never had any problems at all without the clamping diodes, but all my coils have been CW (or halfwave). I think I would want to add them if I was using an interrupter (which you can't with that board anyway
)
Also I didn't have any problems with using 15v on that circuit, no chip failures or anything. I wanted to get the voltage as high as possible to the UCCs, to try and improve the drive to the transformer. That's also the reason I removed the 10R resistor as well, I couldn't see much point in it being there. Other boards I have built up use a 12 volt regulator, and they are fine also.
Avalanche, Mon Oct 02 2006, 02:39PM
I've never had any problems at all without the clamping diodes, but all my coils have been CW (or halfwave). I think I would want to add them if I was using an interrupter (which you can't with that board anyway
)Also I didn't have any problems with using 15v on that circuit, no chip failures or anything. I wanted to get the voltage as high as possible to the UCCs, to try and improve the drive to the transformer. That's also the reason I removed the 10R resistor as well, I couldn't see much point in it being there. Other boards I have built up use a 12 volt regulator, and they are fine also.
Re: PLL Eagle Board
EDY19, Mon Oct 02 2006, 05:49PM
What do you mean you can't add an interrupter? Cant I just solder a little tag wire on the enable pins of the UCCs and interrupt it from there? And clamping diodes could be added to the GDT output terminal without too much trouble I think, so we'll give that a try.
EDY19, Mon Oct 02 2006, 05:49PM
What do you mean you can't add an interrupter? Cant I just solder a little tag wire on the enable pins of the UCCs and interrupt it from there? And clamping diodes could be added to the GDT output terminal without too much trouble I think, so we'll give that a try.
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Marko, Mon Oct 02 2006, 06:01PM
A lot, especially if you use high frequency design with direct gate drive.
They kill off all ringing on UCC output wich can easily cause it to die a horrid death.
In direct drive systems they clamp voltage induced trough miller plateau, wich is potentially harmful for both mosfet and UCC.
PS. I used to leave audio in open, and it worked trough 100ohm resistor well.
I'm not sure if this affects anything except detuning the PLL a bit..
Marko, Mon Oct 02 2006, 06:01PM
How much do the 1N5819's really effect the UCC?
A lot, especially if you use high frequency design with direct gate drive.
They kill off all ringing on UCC output wich can easily cause it to die a horrid death.
In direct drive systems they clamp voltage induced trough miller plateau, wich is potentially harmful for both mosfet and UCC.
PS. I used to leave audio in open, and it worked trough 100ohm resistor well.
I'm not sure if this affects anything except detuning the PLL a bit..
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Avalanche, Mon Oct 02 2006, 06:45PM
I just meant with that board, because of the way I designed it. I found the simplest way was to connect the interrupt and v+ pins together under the chip, then feed power into the interrupt pin. It simplfies the whole design, and saves links on top of the board. There's no reason you can't solder the interrupt signal directly to the pin on top of the board, but you'd have to make sure that pin isn't plugged into the socket
I've never had a UCC death with this board, but I use GDTs on all my coils.
Avalanche, Mon Oct 02 2006, 06:45PM
EDY19 wrote ...
What do you mean you can't add an interrupter? Cant I just solder a little tag wire on the enable pins of the UCCs and interrupt it from there?
What do you mean you can't add an interrupter? Cant I just solder a little tag wire on the enable pins of the UCCs and interrupt it from there?
I just meant with that board, because of the way I designed it. I found the simplest way was to connect the interrupt and v+ pins together under the chip, then feed power into the interrupt pin. It simplfies the whole design, and saves links on top of the board. There's no reason you can't solder the interrupt signal directly to the pin on top of the board, but you'd have to make sure that pin isn't plugged into the socket
I've never had a UCC death with this board, but I use GDTs on all my coils.
Re: PLL Eagle Board
EDY19, Wed Oct 04 2006, 02:33AM
Lastly, do you use antenna feedback or secondary base current feedbak? I would imagine both would work, and I know it is mostly a matter of preference, but just for knkowledge's sake? In order to use secondary base feedback, I would wind a current transfomer with one turn of the secondary base wire, then 100? turns with a 10k?resistor and a .1uf capacitor in series with one lead, connecting to pin 14, and the other to ground, correct? Anything i am missing for this?
EDY19, Wed Oct 04 2006, 02:33AM
Lastly, do you use antenna feedback or secondary base current feedbak? I would imagine both would work, and I know it is mostly a matter of preference, but just for knkowledge's sake? In order to use secondary base feedback, I would wind a current transfomer with one turn of the secondary base wire, then 100? turns with a 10k?resistor and a .1uf capacitor in series with one lead, connecting to pin 14, and the other to ground, correct? Anything i am missing for this?
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Avalanche, Wed Oct 04 2006, 02:05PM
That sounds about right, the only thing you would have to watch out for is overvolting the 1n4148 clamping diodes with the CT, they're only good for about 60v I think. You might want to clamp the CT with some zener diodes before the resistor.
I've used antenna up until now, it's the easiest method for small coils so it depends what you want to do. But when you start getting antenna strikes it's time to upgrade
Avalanche, Wed Oct 04 2006, 02:05PM
That sounds about right, the only thing you would have to watch out for is overvolting the 1n4148 clamping diodes with the CT, they're only good for about 60v I think. You might want to clamp the CT with some zener diodes before the resistor.
I've used antenna up until now, it's the easiest method for small coils so it depends what you want to do. But when you start getting antenna strikes it's time to upgrade
Re: PLL Eagle Board
Marko, Wed Oct 04 2006, 02:37PM
4148's are 100V diodes, and that isn't really important since none of them will see more than supply voltage (unless other one is missing).
With proper capacitor-resistor network the thing should work fine.
Regarding antena strikes, my class E SSTC had a streamer coming out of it's antenna and it worked as such even without clamp diodes.
4046 took all of it since it seems to have (like other cmos circuits) clam diodes already built in at input.
Marko, Wed Oct 04 2006, 02:37PM
4148's are 100V diodes, and that isn't really important since none of them will see more than supply voltage (unless other one is missing).
With proper capacitor-resistor network the thing should work fine.
Regarding antena strikes, my class E SSTC had a streamer coming out of it's antenna and it worked as such even without clamp diodes.
4046 took all of it since it seems to have (like other cmos circuits) clam diodes already built in at input.
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