Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Sat Aug 23 2014, 01:26AMmy etching tank... For my prototypes, and rapid fabs which arnt worth sending out, id like to make these in my home. ive done this for many years with HCl+H2O2 or Ferric chloride, since about 1997. ive abandoned ferric chloride in the past few years without regret, as its so temperature and solution sensitive.
my tank, 40 cubic inches, acrylic. Ill be putting a aquarium thermometer sticky on the side.
I should be able to etch a 5 by 9 inch board easy.
this is about the hiehgt i want for a "tilt and slosh" safety factor.
leak catching safety tote.
I may investigate the use of hair salon H2O2 at 30% instead of common 3%.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Signification, Sun Feb 08 2015, 03:28AM
I *LOVE* this idea...a clear vertical etching tank! I wish I had known about this years ago. I -homemade- PC boards for all my prototypes and used a darkroom tray and that radio shack ferric chloride. Please give more details about your HCL+H2O2 mixture and where to get it all.
Signification, Sun Feb 08 2015, 03:28AM
I *LOVE* this idea...a clear vertical etching tank! I wish I had known about this years ago. I -homemade- PC boards for all my prototypes and used a darkroom tray and that radio shack ferric chloride. Please give more details about your HCL+H2O2 mixture and where to get it all.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Sun Feb 08 2015, 04:07AM
its peroxide with HCl, but really 3% isnt good enough. I think 30% is too strong. And id make sure you had .75 inch wide, my at .3 was to narrow, and it stuck to the walls.
Patrick, Sun Feb 08 2015, 04:07AM
its peroxide with HCl, but really 3% isnt good enough. I think 30% is too strong. And id make sure you had .75 inch wide, my at .3 was to narrow, and it stuck to the walls.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Signification, Sun Feb 08 2015, 04:54AM
Is the chemical you are referring to ( 3%, 30% ) the H2O2?
Signification, Sun Feb 08 2015, 04:54AM
Is the chemical you are referring to ( 3%, 30% ) the H2O2?
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Mon Feb 09 2015, 03:47AM
3% Hydrogen peroxide from drug store.
30% from Hair salon.
Dont kill your self, and look up this reaction several places online for details.
Its better but more dangerous than ferric chloride. but watch the mythbuster "pig in bath tub' episode for getting rid of bodies mafia style. (h2so4 + h2o2)
Patrick, Mon Feb 09 2015, 03:47AM
3% Hydrogen peroxide from drug store.
30% from Hair salon.
Dont kill your self, and look up this reaction several places online for details.
Its better but more dangerous than ferric chloride. but watch the mythbuster "pig in bath tub' episode for getting rid of bodies mafia style. (h2so4 + h2o2)
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Hydron, Mon Feb 09 2015, 01:21PM
I've used ammonium persulfate in the past with good results. Must be heated though, otherwise it takes forever. It's also clear, unlike ferric chloride (turns transparent blue with use - I think it forms copper sulfate).
Hydron, Mon Feb 09 2015, 01:21PM
I've used ammonium persulfate in the past with good results. Must be heated though, otherwise it takes forever. It's also clear, unlike ferric chloride (turns transparent blue with use - I think it forms copper sulfate).
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Mads Barnkob, Mon Feb 09 2015, 02:13PM
I have for a while been looking for a tank for vertical etching, I just want to be able to buy one that was made for a entirely different purpose, maybe IKEA got something.
I will continue to only use FeCl, since I only have to watch out for discoloring, I would however add a air bubbler, does that bring little value when using those more potent acids?
Mads Barnkob, Mon Feb 09 2015, 02:13PM
I have for a while been looking for a tank for vertical etching, I just want to be able to buy one that was made for a entirely different purpose, maybe IKEA got something.
I will continue to only use FeCl, since I only have to watch out for discoloring, I would however add a air bubbler, does that bring little value when using those more potent acids?
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Shrad, Mon Feb 09 2015, 02:28PM
30Mol H2O2 is perfect but your etch-fu has to be good
I use 50/50 HCl and H202 both 30Mol (secret arangement with my local pharmacy which agreed to act as an intermediate for buying a couple chemicals)
50/50 because the water percentage in both completes the mix adequately for a good reactivity (for my taste)
wear gloves especially designed for organic chemistry if you handle it like I do : grab the board with pliers and agitate till it is etched
I do it in a pyrex jar (very exothermic) and have a NaOH solution handy for any accident (usually my developing solution which sits near the rest)
once a couple boards have been done the solution becomes greener and greener and will lose efficiency due to lack of oxygen available for the oxidizing reaction, but usually agitating a board keeps the solution oxygenated and it is sufficient to keep the reaction catalyzed...
you can keep the used product and rejuvenate it with a small quantity of H2O2 which will reactivate the solution with your physical agitation
Shrad, Mon Feb 09 2015, 02:28PM
30Mol H2O2 is perfect but your etch-fu has to be good
I use 50/50 HCl and H202 both 30Mol (secret arangement with my local pharmacy which agreed to act as an intermediate for buying a couple chemicals)
50/50 because the water percentage in both completes the mix adequately for a good reactivity (for my taste)
wear gloves especially designed for organic chemistry if you handle it like I do : grab the board with pliers and agitate till it is etched
I do it in a pyrex jar (very exothermic) and have a NaOH solution handy for any accident (usually my developing solution which sits near the rest)
once a couple boards have been done the solution becomes greener and greener and will lose efficiency due to lack of oxygen available for the oxidizing reaction, but usually agitating a board keeps the solution oxygenated and it is sufficient to keep the reaction catalyzed...
you can keep the used product and rejuvenate it with a small quantity of H2O2 which will reactivate the solution with your physical agitation
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Dédé!, Mon Feb 09 2015, 06:02PM
I use a mixture of 6%H2O2 and 10%Hcl (m/v). That's a combination of 1 part 12%H2O2 and 1 part 20%HCl mixed together. I found that this is the perfect combination for etching. I buy the H2O2 in bottles of 30% and the HCl in jerrycans of 30% and dilute it to the percentages given above. If I need to add some more HCl and/or H2O2 I add undiluted quantities of the chemicals.
Dédé!, Mon Feb 09 2015, 06:02PM
I use a mixture of 6%H2O2 and 10%Hcl (m/v). That's a combination of 1 part 12%H2O2 and 1 part 20%HCl mixed together. I found that this is the perfect combination for etching. I buy the H2O2 in bottles of 30% and the HCl in jerrycans of 30% and dilute it to the percentages given above. If I need to add some more HCl and/or H2O2 I add undiluted quantities of the chemicals.
Its better but more dangerous than ferric chloride. but watch the mythbuster "pig in bath tub' episode for getting rid of bodies mafia style.That Breaking Bad episode was cool, but if I would want to dissolve a body, I wouldn't use Piranha solution, I would use a hot saturated solution of Potassium hydroxide.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Mon Feb 09 2015, 08:39PM
Actually forget what i said about the mafia, they'd just throw someone in with cement shoes in the water.
Patrick, Mon Feb 09 2015, 08:39PM
Actually forget what i said about the mafia, they'd just throw someone in with cement shoes in the water.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Dédé!, Tue Feb 10 2015, 07:05AM
Maybe the mafia does it that way, but then there would still be a body to find. If you want to dispose of a body, alkaline hydrolysis Is the way. It's even an alternative to burial and cremation in some countries and it's supposedly more eco-friendly. That way you can kill someone and be happy you disposed of him/her in one of the most eco-friendly ways possible. You can even flush the remains through the drain after you've neutralized them with some acid. If you're next to a resomation facility and you don't let any evidence lay behind, your chances of getting caught are about the lowest. You can thank me later :)
Dédé!, Tue Feb 10 2015, 07:05AM
Maybe the mafia does it that way, but then there would still be a body to find. If you want to dispose of a body, alkaline hydrolysis Is the way. It's even an alternative to burial and cremation in some countries and it's supposedly more eco-friendly. That way you can kill someone and be happy you disposed of him/her in one of the most eco-friendly ways possible. You can even flush the remains through the drain after you've neutralized them with some acid. If you're next to a resomation facility and you don't let any evidence lay behind, your chances of getting caught are about the lowest. You can thank me later :)
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Thu Apr 23 2015, 07:38PM
ok got some new information related to this thread.
Seen below are pics taken from a new attempt at etching. Ive learned some lessons and wanted to pass them on.
First i found a hair salon that sells aqueous (not gel garbage) at 16% H2O2. Next i used straight 30 mol HCl. Being carefful to add acid slowly to water, I filled a ketchup cup with about 10% H2O2, then 90% HCl by volume. Then being careful not to kill myself, i found scrap circuit board and put it in. After about 1:20 to 1:40 minutes, the board was clear on both sides with no agitation.
Be careful adding to much H2O2, remember your adding mostly water to the reaction solution. the oxygenation is driving the reaction not the water. So after your getting a good vigorous fuming etching, and it then it starts to wain, swish in some air this reaction seems to like plain ol' air just fine. (be careful not to kill yourself doing it)
If one were to use the vertical tank then youd need to be sooper-dooper sure it doesnt over flow out and splatter everywhere.
I bought all new sharpie markers, and will next test under-cut and pin holing. Previously it would take 45-60 minutes to etch what you see below. and there would be defects from over etch in places.
This was 2oz copper.
I didnt pour it out on the ground either. Keep a hose running too.
Patrick, Thu Apr 23 2015, 07:38PM
ok got some new information related to this thread.
Seen below are pics taken from a new attempt at etching. Ive learned some lessons and wanted to pass them on.
First i found a hair salon that sells aqueous (not gel garbage) at 16% H2O2. Next i used straight 30 mol HCl. Being carefful to add acid slowly to water, I filled a ketchup cup with about 10% H2O2, then 90% HCl by volume. Then being careful not to kill myself, i found scrap circuit board and put it in. After about 1:20 to 1:40 minutes, the board was clear on both sides with no agitation.
Be careful adding to much H2O2, remember your adding mostly water to the reaction solution. the oxygenation is driving the reaction not the water. So after your getting a good vigorous fuming etching, and it then it starts to wain, swish in some air this reaction seems to like plain ol' air just fine. (be careful not to kill yourself doing it)
If one were to use the vertical tank then youd need to be sooper-dooper sure it doesnt over flow out and splatter everywhere.
I bought all new sharpie markers, and will next test under-cut and pin holing. Previously it would take 45-60 minutes to etch what you see below. and there would be defects from over etch in places.
This was 2oz copper.
I didnt pour it out on the ground either. Keep a hose running too.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
klugesmith, Fri Apr 24 2015, 04:01AM
To conserve "etchant" chemicals,
you can etch copper-clad material with plain salt water and electric current.
Up to the point where areas that still need etching become disconnected from the current source.
I have never tried it in a quantitative way, but figure 50 coulombs (0.83 ampere-minutes) can remove 1 square cm of 1 oz copper.
One criminal known to have dissolved many corpses was serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.
klugesmith, Fri Apr 24 2015, 04:01AM
To conserve "etchant" chemicals,
you can etch copper-clad material with plain salt water and electric current.
Up to the point where areas that still need etching become disconnected from the current source.
I have never tried it in a quantitative way, but figure 50 coulombs (0.83 ampere-minutes) can remove 1 square cm of 1 oz copper.
One criminal known to have dissolved many corpses was serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Tue Apr 28 2015, 07:03PM
Im wondering if i can print at least large traces via 3D printer, then etch, and see if theres much under cutting.
Patrick, Tue Apr 28 2015, 07:03PM
Im wondering if i can print at least large traces via 3D printer, then etch, and see if theres much under cutting.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Fri May 08 2015, 05:50AM
ive noticed a new type of "Sharpie" marker, its meant for industrial use, high temp and otherwise un-preferred surfaces. Ill purchase one and make a comparison.
Patrick, Fri May 08 2015, 05:50AM
ive noticed a new type of "Sharpie" marker, its meant for industrial use, high temp and otherwise un-preferred surfaces. Ill purchase one and make a comparison.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Thu May 21 2015, 09:51PM
Ive got this new sharpie, will try it in the HCl solution soon.
Patrick, Thu May 21 2015, 09:51PM
Ive got this new sharpie, will try it in the HCl solution soon.
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Dago, Fri May 22 2015, 05:14AM
The problem with HCl based etchants is that the fumes will rust EVERYTHING nearby.
My chemist friend said he wouldn't store the solution inside, and hes not really known for being overly cautious :P
Dago, Fri May 22 2015, 05:14AM
The problem with HCl based etchants is that the fumes will rust EVERYTHING nearby.
My chemist friend said he wouldn't store the solution inside, and hes not really known for being overly cautious :P
Re: Etching Tank, H2O2 + HCl, (Ant Farm Type).
Patrick, Sat May 23 2015, 04:27AM
ive always done it outside with a hose running.
Patrick, Sat May 23 2015, 04:27AM
ive always done it outside with a hose running.
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