Flash lamp
Blackcurrant, Tue Jul 15 2014, 09:57PMHi
I am looking for data on a laser flash lamp
FL8800 Convergent Aurora P50 flashlamp, HPR #0543-188-00 (Perk-N-Elmer)
so far i have
arc 140mm id 9mm od 11mm
I intend to built a ruby laser. I have two of these lamps but would like to workout a safe amount of energy to use.
does anybody know what the V and A refer to? the V reads 454 on one box and 451 on the other, is this some type of test voltage?
I have tried to get datasheets from companies but these things are old and I have not had any luck yet.
any help much appreciated
thanks
Angus
Re: Flash lamp
Sulaiman, Wed Jul 16 2014, 02:53AM
I know only bits that I've read, isn't 140 mm a large/expensive Ruby Rod?
From a tiny bit of experience, the flash energy isn't usually the problem, repeated shots at high energy need good cooling. start here
Sulaiman, Wed Jul 16 2014, 02:53AM
I know only bits that I've read, isn't 140 mm a large/expensive Ruby Rod?
From a tiny bit of experience, the flash energy isn't usually the problem, repeated shots at high energy need good cooling. start here
Re: Flash lamp
Sigurthr, Wed Jul 16 2014, 04:04AM
Flash lamps are rated with an explosion energy level. This is the level of energy needed to cause an explosive failure. Typically the closer you run the tube to the explosion energy the shorter the lifespan of the tube is.
Also, pertinent to your end goal; you'll need a proper pulse formation network. Lasers don't tend to like the gaussian discharge curve of dumped capacitors, they like a more flat current plot, so you'll need to correct the discharge pulse to get the most out of each shot.
Sigurthr, Wed Jul 16 2014, 04:04AM
Flash lamps are rated with an explosion energy level. This is the level of energy needed to cause an explosive failure. Typically the closer you run the tube to the explosion energy the shorter the lifespan of the tube is.
Also, pertinent to your end goal; you'll need a proper pulse formation network. Lasers don't tend to like the gaussian discharge curve of dumped capacitors, they like a more flat current plot, so you'll need to correct the discharge pulse to get the most out of each shot.
Re: Flash lamp
Daedronus, Wed Jul 16 2014, 08:04AM
This:
And the first part of this:
Daedronus, Wed Jul 16 2014, 08:04AM
This:
And the first part of this:
Re: Flash lamp
Blackcurrant, Wed Jul 16 2014, 08:20PM
Thanks all
Daedronus, that's a really good document, it will take me a while to read over. I've seen the Fenix tech web page before and put there calculated values in to a circuit simulator, and it does look like a good 1ms pulse but the current is so large I can't help think this thing will melt or explode.
Sulaiman, I have the laser rod already it has 120mm active part (it's from Russia and wasn't too expensive) and I think one shot per day might be too much so cooling shouldn't be a problem.
I think i will be in the next room and view it via a cheep webcam.
As far as I can tell these flash lamps were used to pump a Nd:YAG laser system I'm hoping they are xenon @450torr.
I will try lighting them up maybe high voltage AC and look at the light coming out, see if I can figure out whats in them.
Still have not a clue to the V and A figures on the box though.
Blackcurrant, Wed Jul 16 2014, 08:20PM
Thanks all
Daedronus, that's a really good document, it will take me a while to read over. I've seen the Fenix tech web page before and put there calculated values in to a circuit simulator, and it does look like a good 1ms pulse but the current is so large I can't help think this thing will melt or explode.
Sulaiman, I have the laser rod already it has 120mm active part (it's from Russia and wasn't too expensive) and I think one shot per day might be too much so cooling shouldn't be a problem.
I think i will be in the next room and view it via a cheep webcam.
As far as I can tell these flash lamps were used to pump a Nd:YAG laser system I'm hoping they are xenon @450torr.
I will try lighting them up maybe high voltage AC and look at the light coming out, see if I can figure out whats in them.
Still have not a clue to the V and A figures on the box though.
Re: Flash lamp
Steve Conner, Thu Jul 17 2014, 08:58AM
I'm guessing "V" is simply the voltage drop when tested with a pulse of current "A"? The figures are in the ballpark for a large flashlamp.
Steve Conner, Thu Jul 17 2014, 08:58AM
I'm guessing "V" is simply the voltage drop when tested with a pulse of current "A"? The figures are in the ballpark for a large flashlamp.
Re: Flash lamp
Shrad, Mon Sept 15 2014, 09:25AM
contact Sam Goldwasser
He is a goldmine of information and is really a nice man!
Just be sure to research by yourself before you ask him anything, as he is a very busy man...
Shrad, Mon Sept 15 2014, 09:25AM
contact Sam Goldwasser
He is a goldmine of information and is really a nice man!
Just be sure to research by yourself before you ask him anything, as he is a very busy man...
Re: Flash lamp
Signification, Sat Jan 31 2015, 02:07AM
I am currently working on a very similar ruby laser. I don't really feel that those V and A are Volts and Amps. With a bit more information, I may be able to help you. Do you have any idea what pulse-width you want from the flashlamp. That would seem to be the starting point for your situation...
For the flashlamp dimensions you give, the explosion energy (Ex) at 1ms pulse-width is Ex=90*(140/25.4)*9 = 4464 Joules. The value Ex decreases with decreasing pulse-width and vice-versa. For a ruby, I would not have the pulse-width exceed the "fluorescence time" of the crystal of 3ms. Also, Ex = 7732 joules @ 3ms pulse-width.
The "LIFE" equation says that if you drove this flashlamp at a pulse-width of 3ms with 1500 joules per shot, you can expect about 1,000,000 flashes lifetime.
Signification, Sat Jan 31 2015, 02:07AM
I am currently working on a very similar ruby laser. I don't really feel that those V and A are Volts and Amps. With a bit more information, I may be able to help you. Do you have any idea what pulse-width you want from the flashlamp. That would seem to be the starting point for your situation...
For the flashlamp dimensions you give, the explosion energy (Ex) at 1ms pulse-width is Ex=90*(140/25.4)*9 = 4464 Joules. The value Ex decreases with decreasing pulse-width and vice-versa. For a ruby, I would not have the pulse-width exceed the "fluorescence time" of the crystal of 3ms. Also, Ex = 7732 joules @ 3ms pulse-width.
The "LIFE" equation says that if you drove this flashlamp at a pulse-width of 3ms with 1500 joules per shot, you can expect about 1,000,000 flashes lifetime.
Re: Flash lamp
Blackcurrant, Sun Feb 01 2015, 12:37PM
I now think the V&I refers to a manufacturers test on every lamp. You can work out the Lamp Impedance by length,bore size, gas or you can run a test on it.
so for my lamp (from V&I on box)
Ko=V/i^0.5 22.55
or
Ko=1.28(P/450)^0.2 l/d 19.91
I plan to use a 1ms 1200A 800V pulse in to them
It should give a bang of about 20% of what the lamp is rated for and a current density of about 2000A/cm2
I have knocked up a mock flash lamp with the same dimensions and am currently trying to get a simmer operation running
I found a good spreadsheet by Douglas Little that has most of the calculation from Perkin Elmer Flashlamp catalog/Sam's laser etc
Blackcurrant, Sun Feb 01 2015, 12:37PM
I now think the V&I refers to a manufacturers test on every lamp. You can work out the Lamp Impedance by length,bore size, gas or you can run a test on it.
so for my lamp (from V&I on box)
Ko=V/i^0.5 22.55
or
Ko=1.28(P/450)^0.2 l/d 19.91
I plan to use a 1ms 1200A 800V pulse in to them
It should give a bang of about 20% of what the lamp is rated for and a current density of about 2000A/cm2
I have knocked up a mock flash lamp with the same dimensions and am currently trying to get a simmer operation running
I found a good spreadsheet by Douglas Little that has most of the calculation from Perkin Elmer Flashlamp catalog/Sam's laser etc
Re: Flash lamp
Bored Chemist, Sun Feb 01 2015, 01:40PM
"I plan to use a 1ms 1200A 800V pulse in to them"
Somewhere at the upper end of a pistol shot's energy.
if this is right
so I hope you have some sort of screening in place.
Bored Chemist, Sun Feb 01 2015, 01:40PM
"I plan to use a 1ms 1200A 800V pulse in to them"
Somewhere at the upper end of a pistol shot's energy.
if this is right
so I hope you have some sort of screening in place.
Re: Flash lamp
Signification, Sun Feb 01 2015, 06:31PM
800V sounds a bit low...
Assuming Ko=22.55 ohm-amp^.5 then:
1) for Xenon gas the pressure is 838 Torr
2) for Krypton gas the pressure is 1500 Torr
...do these values seem high to you? (not to sure about the Kr). What do the inside tips of the flashlamp electrodes look like?
If a 'Xe' fill of 450 Torr is assumed for your lamp, this gives a dynamic impedance: Ko=19.99 ohm-amp^.5
Signification, Sun Feb 01 2015, 06:31PM
800V sounds a bit low...
Assuming Ko=22.55 ohm-amp^.5 then:
1) for Xenon gas the pressure is 838 Torr
2) for Krypton gas the pressure is 1500 Torr
...do these values seem high to you? (not to sure about the Kr). What do the inside tips of the flashlamp electrodes look like?
If a 'Xe' fill of 450 Torr is assumed for your lamp, this gives a dynamic impedance: Ko=19.99 ohm-amp^.5
Re: Flash lamp
Blackcurrant, Sun Feb 01 2015, 09:08PM
There will be some extra polycarbonate around the thing + I will be in another room
I like the idea of working back to find the gas pressure (I never though of that) but it seems a slight error in length or bore size will lead to large differences in pressure. For the two lamps I have, both tested at 400A (assuming arc length=140 & d=9) V&I figures from lamp box
451v would give Ko=22.55 838Torr
454v would give Ko=22.7 866Torr
It measures more like 142mm between electrodes but I can't tell the inside diameter, so I would think it's more likely to be 450Torr Xenon (I hope) . From the PerkinElmer flashlamp catalog under fill pressure it says usually pressures greater than 760torr are only found in small lamps 3-5mm bore.
When I get round to it I could apply a high voltage and see where it starts to conduct, there must be a bit of difference between 450&838torr
the electrodes look fat and rounded but this is just from memory
As for the 800v I intend to use a simmer and square wave drive to power them.
Heraeus Noblelight also have good information
Blackcurrant, Sun Feb 01 2015, 09:08PM
There will be some extra polycarbonate around the thing + I will be in another room
I like the idea of working back to find the gas pressure (I never though of that) but it seems a slight error in length or bore size will lead to large differences in pressure. For the two lamps I have, both tested at 400A (assuming arc length=140 & d=9) V&I figures from lamp box
451v would give Ko=22.55 838Torr
454v would give Ko=22.7 866Torr
It measures more like 142mm between electrodes but I can't tell the inside diameter, so I would think it's more likely to be 450Torr Xenon (I hope) . From the PerkinElmer flashlamp catalog under fill pressure it says usually pressures greater than 760torr are only found in small lamps 3-5mm bore.
When I get round to it I could apply a high voltage and see where it starts to conduct, there must be a bit of difference between 450&838torr
the electrodes look fat and rounded but this is just from memory
As for the 800v I intend to use a simmer and square wave drive to power them.
Heraeus Noblelight also have good information
Re: Flash lamp
Signification, Sun Feb 01 2015, 09:45PM
Actually, this energy level is relatively small for a this size lamp (but keep the safety measure!) I have driven a 6" x 3/8" ruby with 5kJ, but the energy levels ARE scary--I think something like 50j or less is considered lethal.
If it was me, I think I would assume it was Xe at 450 Torr, especially with rounded electrodes. Most krypton flashlamps I have seen have one sharp pointed conical electrode...and xenon flashlamps drive ruby rods just fine. Yes, I have found that a small change in some of these variables have a large impact on others.
Don't forget the inductor (I consider this by far the most important circuit component). I like to use a coil of the "Brooks" configuration. A winding that maximizes inductance for a given length of wire.
Signification, Sun Feb 01 2015, 09:45PM
Actually, this energy level is relatively small for a this size lamp (but keep the safety measure!) I have driven a 6" x 3/8" ruby with 5kJ, but the energy levels ARE scary--I think something like 50j or less is considered lethal.
If it was me, I think I would assume it was Xe at 450 Torr, especially with rounded electrodes. Most krypton flashlamps I have seen have one sharp pointed conical electrode...and xenon flashlamps drive ruby rods just fine. Yes, I have found that a small change in some of these variables have a large impact on others.
Don't forget the inductor (I consider this by far the most important circuit component). I like to use a coil of the "Brooks" configuration. A winding that maximizes inductance for a given length of wire.
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