nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
Patrick, Wed Apr 09 2014, 05:39PMDoes any one here know if companies like zyvex with their special nano epoxy, used in the F35, is really worth it?
I've been reading everything I can, (but I've seen Nasa / others spending tax payers dollars,.) Spend 100k US$ instead of 10k, all to gain just 3%.
Supposedly, they claim lighter, stiffer, stronger, but I don't know how they're qualifying all these claims. I don't know what value the T-Peel is.
here, the 3M product looks close in shear strength.Re: nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
Ash Small, Wed Apr 09 2014, 05:54PM
How do the prices compare? That will tell you if the extra performance is woth the extra cost.
Ash Small, Wed Apr 09 2014, 05:54PM
How do the prices compare? That will tell you if the extra performance is woth the extra cost.
Re: nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
Patrick, Wed Apr 09 2014, 05:56PM
Patrick, Wed Apr 09 2014, 05:56PM
Ash Small wrote ...
How do the prices compare6? That will tell you if the extra performance is woth the extra cost.
To this end, I'm waiting for a reply to email...How do the prices compare6? That will tell you if the extra performance is woth the extra cost.
Re: nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
AndrewM, Thu Apr 10 2014, 01:57PM
T-peel is the performance on an ASTM D1876 test. It applies to adhesives not to structural resins.
What you're not considering is the mass of the system - you may only gain 3% in shear strength (which is measured per unit area), but if the CNTs reduce the density of the resin by 50% then you can make a structure more than twice as strong per unit mass.
AndrewM, Thu Apr 10 2014, 01:57PM
T-peel is the performance on an ASTM D1876 test. It applies to adhesives not to structural resins.
What you're not considering is the mass of the system - you may only gain 3% in shear strength (which is measured per unit area), but if the CNTs reduce the density of the resin by 50% then you can make a structure more than twice as strong per unit mass.
Re: nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
Patrick, Thu Apr 10 2014, 04:47PM
im wondering if they mean this epovex to be used to join panels already cured, thus the T-peel measure...
Patrick, Thu Apr 10 2014, 04:47PM
AndrewM wrote ...
T-peel is the performance on an ASTM D1876 test. It applies to adhesives not to structural resins.
What you're not considering is the mass of the system - you may only gain 3% in shear strength (which is measured per unit area), but if the CNTs reduce the density of the resin by 50% then you can make a structure more than twice as strong per unit mass.
excellent, hence me asking those of you who point these matters out!T-peel is the performance on an ASTM D1876 test. It applies to adhesives not to structural resins.
What you're not considering is the mass of the system - you may only gain 3% in shear strength (which is measured per unit area), but if the CNTs reduce the density of the resin by 50% then you can make a structure more than twice as strong per unit mass.
im wondering if they mean this epovex to be used to join panels already cured, thus the T-peel measure...
Re: nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
AndrewM, Fri Apr 11 2014, 01:25PM
Yeah they're pretty clearly marketing that goop as a repair adhesive.
There really isn't anything innovative about throwing CNTs into epoxy - everyone does this, its hard to make a name brand product out of something that industry already mixes up on their own by the ton. A better epoxy (for example with greater adhesion) would be an innovation (as they seem to have achieved), but also fairly irrelevant in a structural sense.
AndrewM, Fri Apr 11 2014, 01:25PM
Patrick wrote ...
im wondering if they mean this epovex to be used to join panels already cured, thus the T-peel measure...
im wondering if they mean this epovex to be used to join panels already cured, thus the T-peel measure...
Yeah they're pretty clearly marketing that goop as a repair adhesive.
Repair and maintenance applications are an ideal segment for Zyvex to demonstrate the power of nanomaterial engineered products. With a bonding strength stronger than welding, Epovex® Adhesive allows our customers to rapidly repair and maintain their products with the confidence that the latest in materials technology is hard at work.
There really isn't anything innovative about throwing CNTs into epoxy - everyone does this, its hard to make a name brand product out of something that industry already mixes up on their own by the ton. A better epoxy (for example with greater adhesion) would be an innovation (as they seem to have achieved), but also fairly irrelevant in a structural sense.
Re: nanotube doped epoxy for composite structures.
Patrick, Fri Apr 11 2014, 06:27PM
Supposedly, CNTs are phobic to just about everything, polar or non. So, it seems these companies all come up with clever corona -like modding to increase wettability, similar to the low surface energy plastics.
I'm going to continue investigating the CNT epoxy, but I'm going to stick with conventional epoxies due to familiarity and favorable viscosity.
Look here:
-Max 1618 A/B epoxy, tensile shear strength = 2300 psi , viscosity = 250 cps
-635 thin with 4:1 hardener = 9 to 10,000 psi, viscosity = 600cps
-Max bond = tensile shear 3800 psi, viscosity = 5600cps
-epovex ?
It's mostly stiffness I need in my drone airframes, so I'm not sure if that's entirely a fiber/geometry controlled effect or if a high tensile measured epoxy will help.so if evopex reduces density/mass (by at least 30%), then I could add more fiber cloth, yet keep the same mass overall. That would be a plus, as AndrewM has lead me to conclude...
Patrick, Fri Apr 11 2014, 06:27PM
Supposedly, CNTs are phobic to just about everything, polar or non. So, it seems these companies all come up with clever corona -like modding to increase wettability, similar to the low surface energy plastics.
I'm going to continue investigating the CNT epoxy, but I'm going to stick with conventional epoxies due to familiarity and favorable viscosity.
Look here:
-Max 1618 A/B epoxy, tensile shear strength = 2300 psi , viscosity = 250 cps
-635 thin with 4:1 hardener = 9 to 10,000 psi, viscosity = 600cps
-Max bond = tensile shear 3800 psi, viscosity = 5600cps
-epovex ?
It's mostly stiffness I need in my drone airframes, so I'm not sure if that's entirely a fiber/geometry controlled effect or if a high tensile measured epoxy will help.so if evopex reduces density/mass (by at least 30%), then I could add more fiber cloth, yet keep the same mass overall. That would be a plus, as AndrewM has lead me to conclude...
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