legal ramifications of homemade explosives
IamSmooth, Fri May 10 2013, 02:59PMI know when I was in high school many honors chem students would make small quantities of homemade explosives just to see if they could do it. I remember seeing friends setting off thermite and other pyrotechnics in the streets. Today, if someone does this they will probably have a SWAT team breaking down their doors.
I want to know what people here think. Is it against the law to make small quantities of exlosives in one's backyard? Is it illegal to grind a rocket engine and set off the powder, or to make a gram of acetone peroxide or a few drops NTG? I am not saying I or anyone should do this. There are obvious safety concerns. The question is strickly a legal one. Is it against the law to do this at one's home? When does it cross the line and become a "terrosist" threat?
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Steve Conner, Fri May 10 2013, 03:10PM
Luckily I got all that out of my system before it was really an issue. My own personal line in the sand was that I wouldn't do anything involving nitric acid. I didn't know about acetone peroxide, but I'd have been equally wary of it as nitrated explosives.
Steve Conner, Fri May 10 2013, 03:10PM
Luckily I got all that out of my system before it was really an issue. My own personal line in the sand was that I wouldn't do anything involving nitric acid. I didn't know about acetone peroxide, but I'd have been equally wary of it as nitrated explosives.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
HV Enthusiast, Fri May 10 2013, 06:01PM
I don't think its a question of what people here think whether something is illegal or not. Its up to the laws drafted by the government and its sister agencies.
Honestly, i wouldn't even discuss these types of things on a public forum.
If someone can simply be arrested and expelled from school for making a gun shape out of a pop-tart, i would hate to think what they would do if they found someone actually setting off homemade explosives in their backyard.
Its a different world we live in nowadays.
Case an point . . .
Legislators and prosecutors don't even care that you're a straight A student or a chemistyr major. All they care about is setting an example.
HV Enthusiast, Fri May 10 2013, 06:01PM
I don't think its a question of what people here think whether something is illegal or not. Its up to the laws drafted by the government and its sister agencies.
Honestly, i wouldn't even discuss these types of things on a public forum.
If someone can simply be arrested and expelled from school for making a gun shape out of a pop-tart, i would hate to think what they would do if they found someone actually setting off homemade explosives in their backyard.
Its a different world we live in nowadays.
Case an point . . .
Legislators and prosecutors don't even care that you're a straight A student or a chemistyr major. All they care about is setting an example.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
IamSmooth, Fri May 10 2013, 07:14PM
Look at this:
This is what made me think of this.
I also read yesterday about a housekeeper that founds a suspicious looking object in a house she was cleaning.
If you read this article it says the device is illegal. This seems to imply that there are other things that home chemists take for granted that are illegal. I know some police officers. I'm going to have to ask them what how they have been briefed on handling these things and what they consider dangerous and illegal.
I agree with EVR and don't plan to discuss this further.
IamSmooth, Fri May 10 2013, 07:14PM
Look at this:
This is what made me think of this.
I also read yesterday about a housekeeper that founds a suspicious looking object in a house she was cleaning.
If you read this article it says the device is illegal. This seems to imply that there are other things that home chemists take for granted that are illegal. I know some police officers. I'm going to have to ask them what how they have been briefed on handling these things and what they consider dangerous and illegal.
I agree with EVR and don't plan to discuss this further.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
HV Enthusiast, Sat May 11 2013, 01:10AM
Yeah. I'm sure big brother is watching and scanning forums all over the internet for "keywords."
HV Enthusiast, Sat May 11 2013, 01:10AM
Yeah. I'm sure big brother is watching and scanning forums all over the internet for "keywords."
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Wastrel, Sat May 11 2013, 11:38AM
My understanding is that draino bombs have specific legislation in the US. I've heard they were used a lot to blow up mailboxes and of course they throw out a lot of caustic material when they go.
One interpretation of the cartridge sized device is that it contains material intended to form shrapnel, in which case it would be a weapon. Anyone who makes any kind of firework has a duty to keep it away from the cleaner or the meter reader or anyone else who might report it. You signed up for the risk, they did not.
Laws vary a lot from place to place and there is no excuse for not reading them first.
Wastrel, Sat May 11 2013, 11:38AM
My understanding is that draino bombs have specific legislation in the US. I've heard they were used a lot to blow up mailboxes and of course they throw out a lot of caustic material when they go.
One interpretation of the cartridge sized device is that it contains material intended to form shrapnel, in which case it would be a weapon. Anyone who makes any kind of firework has a duty to keep it away from the cleaner or the meter reader or anyone else who might report it. You signed up for the risk, they did not.
Laws vary a lot from place to place and there is no excuse for not reading them first.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Fraggle, Sat May 11 2013, 01:36PM
Like Steve, I got it out of my system years ago but in the post-9/11 world I wouldn`t even think about it. These days I`d be afraid to purchase anything that so much as resembled an oxidiser or even a dozen boxes of matches. Hell, components of ANY obvious reaction that changes volume rapidly are off my shopping list, even buying torch gases makes me feel like a criminal.
Fraggle, Sat May 11 2013, 01:36PM
Like Steve, I got it out of my system years ago but in the post-9/11 world I wouldn`t even think about it. These days I`d be afraid to purchase anything that so much as resembled an oxidiser or even a dozen boxes of matches. Hell, components of ANY obvious reaction that changes volume rapidly are off my shopping list, even buying torch gases makes me feel like a criminal.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Steve Conner, Sat May 11 2013, 07:00PM
I feel sorry for chemistry teachers. How are they going to teach chemistry without blowing things up?
Steve Conner, Sat May 11 2013, 07:00PM
I feel sorry for chemistry teachers. How are they going to teach chemistry without blowing things up?
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Fraggle, Sat May 11 2013, 07:18PM
I remember clearly to this day the time when our chemistry teacher almost took his hair off demonstrating how iron is extracted from iron-ore in a blast-furnace. We even got to pass the still-warm nugget of iron around the class.
I hope that science lessons are as much fun for kids now but I suspect not.
Fraggle, Sat May 11 2013, 07:18PM
I remember clearly to this day the time when our chemistry teacher almost took his hair off demonstrating how iron is extracted from iron-ore in a blast-furnace. We even got to pass the still-warm nugget of iron around the class.
I hope that science lessons are as much fun for kids now but I suspect not.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Conundrum, Sat May 18 2013, 12:06AM
"Changes volume rapidly".. that would cover LiPo packs used in most small electronic devices these days.
I did notice that the casings on these have been steadily decreasing in thickness, and a very small perforation can let moisture in.
Shorts to the case have also become more common as manufacturers cut corners to increase capacity beyond sensible limits.
Conundrum, Sat May 18 2013, 12:06AM
"Changes volume rapidly".. that would cover LiPo packs used in most small electronic devices these days.
I did notice that the casings on these have been steadily decreasing in thickness, and a very small perforation can let moisture in.
Shorts to the case have also become more common as manufacturers cut corners to increase capacity beyond sensible limits.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Dr. Slack, Sat May 18 2013, 07:17AM
Different juristictions vary in their laws, so 'is it illegal' can only be answered by RTFLLs (RTF Local Laws). But are you going to get caught? It all really depends on quantities and discretion. If you start blowing things up in the street, then you *will* attract the wrong sort of attention.
My favourite, really easy to make, and it's amusing in very small quantities, is NI3. Sprinkle a few crystals on a hard floor and confuse people as they crackle across it. But don't be a dick and scale it up. And now I'm in my 50's, it's long out of my system.
I used to have a colleague, now sadly departed though not as a result of this activity, who used to make his own pyrotechnics. It was quite unnerving to visit him in the months leading up to November (different regions have different dates for letting off these things), as there would be drying dishes of black powder scattered all over his flat. The top of the gas stove, you know the plate-drying rack on the old type of cooker, directly above the burners, would be fully populated, and usually with a burner or two running on low to provide some warmth. He used to enthuse about the relative merits of making charcoal from this, that or the other feedstock, and reckoned that Dogwood gave charcoal with the most adsorbed hydrocarbons, leading to better volume increase. How he didn't burn the place down always amazed me. Regardless of the fact that he had no intent to cause damage, the process of manufacturing any woosh-bang-nasty has its dangers. It's probably no bad thing that most areas call this illegal, or more people would be doing it.
Dr. Slack, Sat May 18 2013, 07:17AM
Different juristictions vary in their laws, so 'is it illegal' can only be answered by RTFLLs (RTF Local Laws). But are you going to get caught? It all really depends on quantities and discretion. If you start blowing things up in the street, then you *will* attract the wrong sort of attention.
My favourite, really easy to make, and it's amusing in very small quantities, is NI3. Sprinkle a few crystals on a hard floor and confuse people as they crackle across it. But don't be a dick and scale it up. And now I'm in my 50's, it's long out of my system.
I used to have a colleague, now sadly departed though not as a result of this activity, who used to make his own pyrotechnics. It was quite unnerving to visit him in the months leading up to November (different regions have different dates for letting off these things), as there would be drying dishes of black powder scattered all over his flat. The top of the gas stove, you know the plate-drying rack on the old type of cooker, directly above the burners, would be fully populated, and usually with a burner or two running on low to provide some warmth. He used to enthuse about the relative merits of making charcoal from this, that or the other feedstock, and reckoned that Dogwood gave charcoal with the most adsorbed hydrocarbons, leading to better volume increase. How he didn't burn the place down always amazed me. Regardless of the fact that he had no intent to cause damage, the process of manufacturing any woosh-bang-nasty has its dangers. It's probably no bad thing that most areas call this illegal, or more people would be doing it.
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Shrad, Wed Jul 03 2013, 07:15AM
I'm sad for you US guys, seeing that you are worried about buying a blowtorch while I still can burn a log with a pyro mix instead of digging hours, or buy a liter of 33% peroxyde at the pharmacy to etch copper...
glad to be in EU!
Shrad, Wed Jul 03 2013, 07:15AM
I'm sad for you US guys, seeing that you are worried about buying a blowtorch while I still can burn a log with a pyro mix instead of digging hours, or buy a liter of 33% peroxyde at the pharmacy to etch copper...
glad to be in EU!
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Dri0m, Sat Jul 06 2013, 09:26AM
FYI thermite is completely legal
Dri0m, Sat Jul 06 2013, 09:26AM
I remember seeing friends setting off thermite and other pyrotechnics in the streets.
FYI thermite is completely legal
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
Conundrum, Tue Jul 09 2013, 07:36AM
I am not sure, IIRC any chemical combination which burns at 3000+ Celsius and water just makes it hotter is likely to raise a few eyebrows at least.
Also using TM to destroy hard disks probably comes under "destruction of evidence" even if the drives are just random ones from broken PCs.
On the flip side, I did have a chance to examine a carbide lamp, those beasties are interesting.
Wonder if its possible to make a calcium ion battery?
(disclaimer: acetone, flammable chemicals, acetylene, = KABOOM potential * like 50000. DO NOT try this at home)
Conundrum, Tue Jul 09 2013, 07:36AM
I am not sure, IIRC any chemical combination which burns at 3000+ Celsius and water just makes it hotter is likely to raise a few eyebrows at least.
Also using TM to destroy hard disks probably comes under "destruction of evidence" even if the drives are just random ones from broken PCs.
On the flip side, I did have a chance to examine a carbide lamp, those beasties are interesting.
Wonder if its possible to make a calcium ion battery?
(disclaimer: acetone, flammable chemicals, acetylene, = KABOOM potential * like 50000. DO NOT try this at home)
Re: legal ramifications of homemade explosives
jpsmith123, Wed Jul 10 2013, 03:36AM
Presently you can go into almost any sporting goods store (in the U.S. at least), e.g., Gander Mountain, and buy exploding targets...comprising ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminum.
Because the ingredients are packaged separately (and are not by themselves deemed to be "explosive") it's legal to sell and transport the ingredients that way, and legal to use the end product; up to a certain quantity at least.
Once the two ingredients are mixed, you've got the high explosive "ammonal", which, depending on things like geometry, confinement, particle size, type of detonator, etc., can have a detonation velocity somewhere between 3 and 5 km/s, IIRC.
I think one area where you could run into legal problems is if you store it *after it's mixed*.
(BTW, immediately after the embarrassingly crude "Boston Marathon Bombing" false-flag attack, our Masters indicated they would try to ban everything from exploding targets to reloading powders. Luckily however, so many people realized that the whole thing was a fraud that they may have abandoned the effort to ban everything. Also, they may have run into the problem that any laws that would make exploding targets illegal would also harm to the commercial explosives industry that uses binary explosives mixed on-site).
jpsmith123, Wed Jul 10 2013, 03:36AM
Presently you can go into almost any sporting goods store (in the U.S. at least), e.g., Gander Mountain, and buy exploding targets...comprising ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminum.
Because the ingredients are packaged separately (and are not by themselves deemed to be "explosive") it's legal to sell and transport the ingredients that way, and legal to use the end product; up to a certain quantity at least.
Once the two ingredients are mixed, you've got the high explosive "ammonal", which, depending on things like geometry, confinement, particle size, type of detonator, etc., can have a detonation velocity somewhere between 3 and 5 km/s, IIRC.
I think one area where you could run into legal problems is if you store it *after it's mixed*.
(BTW, immediately after the embarrassingly crude "Boston Marathon Bombing" false-flag attack, our Masters indicated they would try to ban everything from exploding targets to reloading powders. Luckily however, so many people realized that the whole thing was a fraud that they may have abandoned the effort to ban everything. Also, they may have run into the problem that any laws that would make exploding targets illegal would also harm to the commercial explosives industry that uses binary explosives mixed on-site).
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