platinum alloy wire
EEYORE, Sat Aug 26 2006, 10:10PMHello all,
I got my platinum wire (92% platinum/8%tungsten). Seems it is too impure to do anything with(fuel cell total failure). It wont even catalyse my anhydrous methanol. What is this useful for?Please dont say a silly light bulb filament
Is there a way to isolate the platinum?I dont think I could melt the stuff...Will something dissolve one and not the other?
I have 3 feet of this stuff, 43awg. Would be a shame to just chuck it into the failed experiments bucket...
Any tips?
Thanks!
Matt
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Sat Aug 26 2006, 10:48PM
sell it back on ebay?
I would say that for 3' of it you probably got ripped if you paid for more than just shipping
Are you sure it isn't like plated in something that is keeping it from working? I was under the impression that platinum being a catalist surface area only mattered...
Exploding wire?
..., Sat Aug 26 2006, 10:48PM
sell it back on ebay?
I would say that for 3' of it you probably got ripped if you paid for more than just shipping
Are you sure it isn't like plated in something that is keeping it from working? I was under the impression that platinum being a catalist surface area only mattered...
Exploding wire?
Re: platinum alloy wire
EEYORE, Sat Aug 26 2006, 11:04PM
Its not plated in anything...Perhaps my methanol is suspect?I have some platinum plated razors that seem to do nothing as well...Ive seen 95% platinum wire catalyse methanol(did the search from the archives), methinks something is up here. How could just being 3% off do absolutly nothing?
Lets see if this "methanol": burns...
Matt
EEYORE, Sat Aug 26 2006, 11:04PM
... wrote ...
sell it back on ebay?
I would say that for 3' of it you probably got ripped if you paid for more than just shipping
Are you sure it isn't like plated in something that is keeping it from working? I was under the impression that platinum being a catalist surface area only mattered...
Exploding wire?
sell it back on ebay?
I would say that for 3' of it you probably got ripped if you paid for more than just shipping
Are you sure it isn't like plated in something that is keeping it from working? I was under the impression that platinum being a catalist surface area only mattered...
Exploding wire?
Its not plated in anything...Perhaps my methanol is suspect?I have some platinum plated razors that seem to do nothing as well...Ive seen 95% platinum wire catalyse methanol(did the search from the archives), methinks something is up here. How could just being 3% off do absolutly nothing?
Lets see if this "methanol": burns...
Matt
Re: platinum alloy wire
Carbon_Rod, Sun Aug 27 2006, 01:49AM
Clean it with some sand paper.
btw: Old glass PH probes often have 2 platinum wires inside.
Carbon_Rod, Sun Aug 27 2006, 01:49AM
Clean it with some sand paper.
btw: Old glass PH probes often have 2 platinum wires inside.
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Sun Aug 27 2006, 02:30AM
I would really like to see you sand a piece of wire that is .0022" in diameter
I think that if you want to get the wire glowing you are going to need a pretty strong solution methanol... Like saturated would be good
..., Sun Aug 27 2006, 02:30AM
I would really like to see you sand a piece of wire that is .0022" in diameter
I think that if you want to get the wire glowing you are going to need a pretty strong solution methanol... Like saturated would be good
Re: platinum alloy wire
EEYORE, Sun Aug 27 2006, 07:14AM
I thought anhdrous methanol, was as strong as it could get???(My university's general chemistry class wasnt too thorough)...
I will try sand- paper...(i have nimble fingers, and nothing to lose)
Matt
EEYORE, Sun Aug 27 2006, 07:14AM
... wrote ...
I would really like to see you sand a piece of wire that is .0022" in diameter
I think that if you want to get the wire glowing you are going to need a pretty strong solution methanol... Like saturated would be good
I would really like to see you sand a piece of wire that is .0022" in diameter
I think that if you want to get the wire glowing you are going to need a pretty strong solution methanol... Like saturated would be good
I thought anhdrous methanol, was as strong as it could get???(My university's general chemistry class wasnt too thorough)...
I will try sand- paper...(i have nimble fingers, and nothing to lose
)Matt
Re: platinum alloy wire
Carbon_Rod, Sun Aug 27 2006, 09:14AM
Platinum is good only because it does not fall apart as fast with use. There are cheaper but less stable designs around.
There are some simple techniques plating glass pipettes etc. with a mirror coat of platinum.
Cheers,
Carbon_Rod, Sun Aug 27 2006, 09:14AM
Platinum is good only because it does not fall apart as fast with use. There are cheaper but less stable designs around.
There are some simple techniques plating glass pipettes etc. with a mirror coat of platinum.
Cheers,
Re: platinum alloy wire
EEYORE, Sun Aug 27 2006, 02:56PM
I tried the sandpaper, and no luck.
I just dont get it
Id think that 92% Platinum would be fine...Maybe I could find a way to melt this stuff, or dissolve it/electroplate it?
Also, the anhydrous methanol is actually a liquid. Looks just luck plain ole rubbing alcohol. I thought anhydrous means "without water". I was under the impression that would leave it as a solid somehow?
Matt
EEYORE, Sun Aug 27 2006, 02:56PM
I tried the sandpaper, and no luck.
I just dont get it
Id think that 92% Platinum would be fine...Maybe I could find a way to melt this stuff, or dissolve it/electroplate it?
Also, the anhydrous methanol is actually a liquid. Looks just luck plain ole rubbing alcohol. I thought anhydrous means "without water". I was under the impression that would leave it as a solid somehow?
Matt
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Sun Aug 27 2006, 04:08PM
I was under the impression that methanol was a solid at room temp, although it might be warm enough for it to have melted where you are... If it really in methanol it will smell pretty strongly if that is any indication...
Perhaps you should contact the member with all of that platinum coated plastic out of contact lens cleaners...
..., Sun Aug 27 2006, 04:08PM
I was under the impression that methanol was a solid at room temp, although it might be warm enough for it to have melted where you are... If it really in methanol it will smell pretty strongly if that is any indication...
Perhaps you should contact the member with all of that platinum coated plastic out of contact lens cleaners...
Re: platinum alloy wire
Wolfram, Sun Aug 27 2006, 06:20PM
Methanol is surely liquid at room temperature, it's melting point is -97°C.
Wolfram, Sun Aug 27 2006, 06:20PM
Methanol is surely liquid at room temperature, it's melting point is -97°C.
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Sun Aug 27 2006, 06:33PM
oops, lost the negative sign in my notes
Some spark plugs have platinum...
..., Sun Aug 27 2006, 06:33PM
oops, lost the negative sign in my notes
Some spark plugs have platinum...
Re: platinum alloy wire
Carbon_Rod, Sun Aug 27 2006, 11:30PM
Drop it in a small cap full of Hydrogen Peroxide antiseptic. If it does not cause bubbles to form it likely is not reactive platinum (or silver.) LOL – for fun I tested those platinum razors with no success too. =o]
Those spark plugs are from aircraft and are about $60 or more each for refurbished units. Catalytic converters out of cars at one point had plated honeycombs too (need to heat them a bit before doing the self glowing demonstration.) However, a small bottle of Chloroplatinic Acid (Fisher P154) plating solution will likely be cheaper and more versatile.
Of course Nickel screens are cheaper to experiment with and can be easily plated too. But the fuel cell is more susceptible to being poisoned by contaminants (clean fuel is a must.) CRT tubes and NiChrome wire have quite a bit of nickel – but neither will likely work for this type of application.
You probably already know some commonly mislabelled industrial alcohol is really ethanol mixed with a bit of methanol.
Have fun,
Carbon_Rod, Sun Aug 27 2006, 11:30PM
Drop it in a small cap full of Hydrogen Peroxide antiseptic. If it does not cause bubbles to form it likely is not reactive platinum (or silver.) LOL – for fun I tested those platinum razors with no success too. =o]
Those spark plugs are from aircraft and are about $60 or more each for refurbished units. Catalytic converters out of cars at one point had plated honeycombs too (need to heat them a bit before doing the self glowing demonstration.) However, a small bottle of Chloroplatinic Acid (Fisher P154) plating solution will likely be cheaper and more versatile.
Of course Nickel screens are cheaper to experiment with and can be easily plated too. But the fuel cell is more susceptible to being poisoned by contaminants (clean fuel is a must.) CRT tubes and NiChrome wire have quite a bit of nickel – but neither will likely work for this type of application.
You probably already know some commonly mislabelled industrial alcohol is really ethanol mixed with a bit of methanol.
Have fun,
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Mon Aug 28 2006, 02:09AM
I was thinking of the plugs I just replaced in my mom's car (well they say they are platinum...) they cost only a few bux a piece... I chucked the old ones so I can't tell you if they are any good
On the other hand, I do have a bottle of 10% Chloroplatinic Acid... Looking at the msds it is pretty damn nasty stuff
I calculate 2ml into 50ml of water would give ~10mM solution as shown here
You guys want me to give it a try?
..., Mon Aug 28 2006, 02:09AM
I was thinking of the plugs I just replaced in my mom's car (well they say they are platinum...) they cost only a few bux a piece... I chucked the old ones so I can't tell you if they are any good
On the other hand, I do have a bottle of 10% Chloroplatinic Acid... Looking at the msds it is pretty damn nasty stuff
I calculate 2ml into 50ml of water would give ~10mM solution as shown hereYou guys want me to give it a try?
Re: platinum alloy wire
EEYORE, Mon Aug 28 2006, 05:28AM
The chloroplatonic acid is very $$$, around 90$(way more than I will spend)
I did put the wire in H2O2 and it did indeed create some bubbles, nothing like putting managanese dioxide in, but yes, bubbles are coming off the wire.
So, it would seem this wire IS indeed good, and the "methanol" is shit, no?
That would be great if you could try out your acid!The commerical fuel cell i got works great!Way better than I thought!Id just LOVE to get the methanol fuel cell working too. Im too afraid to try putting methanol into the PEM fuel cell. The guy from the place said I could, as long as it is dilluted, but he didnt seem to eager to see me find success this way rather than buy their methanol cell.
Matt
Matt
EEYORE, Mon Aug 28 2006, 05:28AM
... wrote ...
I was thinking of the plugs I just replaced in my mom's car (well they say they are platinum...) they cost only a few bux a piece... I chucked the old ones so I can't tell you if they are any good
On the other hand, I do have a bottle of 10% Chloroplatinic Acid... Looking at the msds it is pretty damn nasty stuff I calculate 2ml into 50ml of water would give ~10mM solution as shown here
You guys want me to give it a try?
I was thinking of the plugs I just replaced in my mom's car (well they say they are platinum...) they cost only a few bux a piece... I chucked the old ones so I can't tell you if they are any good
On the other hand, I do have a bottle of 10% Chloroplatinic Acid... Looking at the msds it is pretty damn nasty stuff
I calculate 2ml into 50ml of water would give ~10mM solution as shown hereYou guys want me to give it a try?
The chloroplatonic acid is very $$$, around 90$(way more than I will spend)
I did put the wire in H2O2 and it did indeed create some bubbles, nothing like putting managanese dioxide in, but yes, bubbles are coming off the wire.
So, it would seem this wire IS indeed good, and the "methanol" is shit, no?
That would be great if you could try out your acid!The commerical fuel cell i got works great!Way better than I thought!Id just LOVE to get the methanol fuel cell working too. Im too afraid to try putting methanol into the PEM fuel cell. The guy from the place said I could, as long as it is dilluted, but he didnt seem to eager to see me find success this way rather than buy their methanol cell.
Matt
Matt
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Mon Aug 28 2006, 01:16PM
looks like it is going to be a fun day... I am etching a few pcb's and a platinum plating some copper sheet, and registering for school, and I get to go back to the internship and see how progress has been
What should I plate? I am thinking some copper sheet? Probably dip the copper in some HCL to clean it off then electrolyse in platinic acid... I have some gold plated kovar and gold plated copper if you think that might work better (I couldn't find anywhere that said what you can plate platinum on). I could also nickle plate something then use the platinum (I have gold, silver, copper, and nickle plating kits, as well as the bottle of H2PtCl6*6H2O and tons of CuSO4*5H2O)
Edit:
I made up 50ml of a .0100M platanic acid solution and transfered 10ml into another dixi cup (very limited glassware here) and dropped in a piece of gold plated copper (mirror finish) and a pencil lead planning to and as I was getting ready to hook it up to a power supply I noticed the copper was silver It just plated out onto the copper on its own. And it looks like it is pretty pure, dropping it some 3% H2O2 bubbled pretty good (but less than maganese me thinks) but trying methanol didn't do anything. The methanol smelled a little wierd (sorta of a stale smell folowed by a burning 
) so i tried some 60% methanol 20% nitromethane 20% oil r/c car gas and still didn't get anything 
Not to be discouraged, I soldered 2 ~.25"x.5"x.03" pieces of gold-plated-something (probably copper or kovar) to a piece of wire and dropped them in until they looked consistantly shiney. Then I took then and put them into a cup of distilled (reverse osmosis) water and gave them 3v which eqauted a current draw of about 2.5ma for a little while so I got a few bubbles. Then I killed the power and checked the open circuit voltage 0.57v and current 0.5ma. Not quite enough for a led... I did try plating some copper sheet I have but the coating looked really dark and didn't cuase H2O2 to decompose so I am guessing it reacted with the copper or something.
In any case, if you are interisted I still have about 30ml of the .01M solution I made up and the 4 pieces I plated if you want them
pm me if you want to arrange a trade (I am not very atached to it 
) I should also point out that there are 2 250' spools of pure platinum wire on ebay at ~$25 with 2 days left
..., Mon Aug 28 2006, 01:16PM
looks like it is going to be a fun day... I am etching a few pcb's and a platinum plating some copper sheet, and registering for school, and I get to go back to the internship and see how progress has been
What should I plate? I am thinking some copper sheet? Probably dip the copper in some HCL to clean it off then electrolyse in platinic acid... I have some gold plated kovar and gold plated copper if you think that might work better (I couldn't find anywhere that said what you can plate platinum on). I could also nickle plate something then use the platinum (I have gold, silver, copper, and nickle plating kits, as well as the bottle of H2PtCl6*6H2O and tons of CuSO4*5H2O)
Edit:
I made up 50ml of a .0100M platanic acid solution and transfered 10ml into another dixi cup (very limited glassware here) and dropped in a piece of gold plated copper (mirror finish) and a pencil lead planning to and as I was getting ready to hook it up to a power supply I noticed the copper was silver
It just plated out onto the copper on its own. And it looks like it is pretty pure, dropping it some 3% H2O2 bubbled pretty good (but less than maganese me thinks) but trying methanol didn't do anything. The methanol smelled a little wierd (sorta of a stale smell folowed by a burning ) so i tried some 60% methanol 20% nitromethane 20% oil r/c car gas and still didn't get anything Not to be discouraged, I soldered 2 ~.25"x.5"x.03" pieces of gold-plated-something (probably copper or kovar) to a piece of wire and dropped them in until they looked consistantly shiney. Then I took then and put them into a cup of distilled (reverse osmosis) water and gave them 3v which eqauted a current draw of about 2.5ma for a little while so I got a few bubbles. Then I killed the power and checked the open circuit voltage 0.57v and current 0.5ma. Not quite enough for a led... I did try plating some copper sheet I have but the coating looked really dark and didn't cuase H2O2 to decompose so I am guessing it reacted with the copper or something.
In any case, if you are interisted I still have about 30ml of the .01M solution I made up and the 4 pieces I plated if you want them
pm me if you want to arrange a trade (I am not very atached to it ) I should also point out that there are 2 250' spools of pure platinum wire on ebay at ~$25 with 2 days left Re: platinum alloy wire
EEYORE, Tue Aug 29 2006, 05:26AM
Could it be that the plating must be ultra ultra thin?Seems that if the mini methanol fuel cell cost just 30$, then they likely use very VERY little platinum...Probably next to none, just a large surface with incredibly thin plating...Also, I beleive one of the electrodes somehow employs managanse
Matt
EEYORE, Tue Aug 29 2006, 05:26AM
... wrote ...
looks like it is going to be a fun day... I am etching a few pcb's and a platinum plating some copper sheet, and registering for school, and I get to go back to the internship and see how progress has been
What should I plate? I am thinking some copper sheet? Probably dip the copper in some HCL to clean it off then electrolyse in platinic acid... I have some gold plated kovar and gold plated copper if you think that might work better (I couldn't find anywhere that said what you can plate platinum on). I could also nickle plate something then use the platinum (I have gold, silver, copper, and nickle plating kits, as well as the bottle of H2PtCl6*6H2O and tons of CuSO4*5H2O)
Edit:
I made up 50ml of a .0100M platanic acid solution and transfered 10ml into another dixi cup (very limited glassware here) and dropped in a piece of gold plated copper (mirror finish) and a pencil lead planning to and as I was getting ready to hook it up to a power supply I noticed the copper was silver It just plated out onto the copper on its own. And it looks like it is pretty pure, dropping it some 3% H2O2 bubbled pretty good (but less than maganese me thinks) but trying methanol didn't do anything. The methanol smelled a little wierd (sorta of a stale smell folowed by a burning ) so i tried some 60% methanol 20% nitromethane 20% oil r/c car gas and still didn't get anything
Not to be discouraged, I soldered 2 ~.25"x.5"x.03" pieces of gold-plated-something (probably copper or kovar) to a piece of wire and dropped them in until they looked consistantly shiney. Then I took then and put them into a cup of distilled (reverse osmosis) water and gave them 3v which eqauted a current draw of about 2.5ma for a little while so I got a few bubbles. Then I killed the power and checked the open circuit voltage 0.57v and current 0.5ma. Not quite enough for a led... I did try plating some copper sheet I have but the coating looked really dark and didn't cuase H2O2 to decompose so I am guessing it reacted with the copper or something.
In any case, if you are interisted I still have about 30ml of the .01M solution I made up and the 4 pieces I plated if you want them pm me if you want to arrange a trade (I am not very atached to it ) I should also point out that there are 2 250' spools of pure platinum wire on ebay at ~$25 with 2 days left
Try using KOH + the methanol with the platinum plated electrodes...looks like it is going to be a fun day... I am etching a few pcb's and a platinum plating some copper sheet, and registering for school, and I get to go back to the internship and see how progress has been
What should I plate? I am thinking some copper sheet? Probably dip the copper in some HCL to clean it off then electrolyse in platinic acid... I have some gold plated kovar and gold plated copper if you think that might work better (I couldn't find anywhere that said what you can plate platinum on). I could also nickle plate something then use the platinum (I have gold, silver, copper, and nickle plating kits, as well as the bottle of H2PtCl6*6H2O and tons of CuSO4*5H2O)
Edit:
I made up 50ml of a .0100M platanic acid solution and transfered 10ml into another dixi cup (very limited glassware here) and dropped in a piece of gold plated copper (mirror finish) and a pencil lead planning to and as I was getting ready to hook it up to a power supply I noticed the copper was silver
It just plated out onto the copper on its own. And it looks like it is pretty pure, dropping it some 3% H2O2 bubbled pretty good (but less than maganese me thinks) but trying methanol didn't do anything. The methanol smelled a little wierd (sorta of a stale smell folowed by a burning ) so i tried some 60% methanol 20% nitromethane 20% oil r/c car gas and still didn't get anything Not to be discouraged, I soldered 2 ~.25"x.5"x.03" pieces of gold-plated-something (probably copper or kovar) to a piece of wire and dropped them in until they looked consistantly shiney. Then I took then and put them into a cup of distilled (reverse osmosis) water and gave them 3v which eqauted a current draw of about 2.5ma for a little while so I got a few bubbles. Then I killed the power and checked the open circuit voltage 0.57v and current 0.5ma. Not quite enough for a led... I did try plating some copper sheet I have but the coating looked really dark and didn't cuase H2O2 to decompose so I am guessing it reacted with the copper or something.
In any case, if you are interisted I still have about 30ml of the .01M solution I made up and the 4 pieces I plated if you want them
pm me if you want to arrange a trade (I am not very atached to it ) I should also point out that there are 2 250' spools of pure platinum wire on ebay at ~$25 with 2 days left Could it be that the plating must be ultra ultra thin?Seems that if the mini methanol fuel cell cost just 30$, then they likely use very VERY little platinum...Probably next to none, just a large surface with incredibly thin plating...Also, I beleive one of the electrodes somehow employs managanse
Matt
Re: platinum alloy wire
Carbon_Rod, Tue Aug 29 2006, 07:14AM
Stop the press! -- Heterogeneous catalysts need surface area. LOL =D
The acid is at most $60 US a gram for super pure samples (IIRC well under $50 + tax.)
Carbon_Rod, Tue Aug 29 2006, 07:14AM
Stop the press! -- Heterogeneous catalysts need surface area. LOL =D
The acid is at most $60 US a gram for super pure samples (IIRC well under $50 + tax.)
Re: platinum alloy wire
..., Tue Aug 29 2006, 02:32PM
I don't have any KOH arround though
I coud plate much larger pieces (I could do at least a sqaure inch single sided to a mirror finsih) in a puddle of 10ml of the .01M solution if I had a big enough substrait to put it on... I was hoping that copper would work but it looks like it is reacting incorrectly and giving me a black coating that doesn't do anything
I guess I could try gold plating a piece of copper, then platinum plating it...
..., Tue Aug 29 2006, 02:32PM
I don't have any KOH arround though
I coud plate much larger pieces (I could do at least a sqaure inch single sided to a mirror finsih) in a puddle of 10ml of the .01M solution if I had a big enough substrait to put it on... I was hoping that copper would work but it looks like it is reacting incorrectly and giving me a black coating that doesn't do anything
I guess I could try gold plating a piece of copper, then platinum plating it...Re: platinum alloy wire
Bored Chemist, Tue Aug 29 2006, 02:48PM
I think that you have met an unusual problem; you havea nice clean shiny mirror finish to yout Pt coating.
More than half the time I ever tried coating anything I got a lousy black smudge that didn't even look like metal, never mind the nice mirror finish I wanted.
Unfortunately, for what you want, that black (because it has a poor surface finsh and, therefore, lots of surface area) smudge is just what you want.
I sugest that you try electroplating more Pt onto the layer you have. With a high current density you will probably get a blackish layer that will work better.
Bored Chemist, Tue Aug 29 2006, 02:48PM
I think that you have met an unusual problem; you havea nice clean shiny mirror finish to yout Pt coating.
More than half the time I ever tried coating anything I got a lousy black smudge that didn't even look like metal, never mind the nice mirror finish I wanted.
Unfortunately, for what you want, that black (because it has a poor surface finsh and, therefore, lots of surface area) smudge is just what you want.
I sugest that you try electroplating more Pt onto the layer you have. With a high current density you will probably get a blackish layer that will work better.
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