Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Sat Mar 09 2013, 10:39PMHi I recently brought a scope from a car boot sale that I cant find any info on as I have no idea on make and model.
All I can tell you is that it is three trace and looks like some other Hitachi models but that really means nothing
I would really like to know the bandwidth as really make and model is not the issue .I have looked at buying probes but nothing seems to meet the 1Mohm 25pf it requires .Maybe I just don't know enough about scopes to tell and any info is good info as I have none
I will post some pics and any help would be great Thank you in advance
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
testtest, Sat Mar 09 2013, 10:52PM
Does reminds me of my old Hitachi.
Funny that there are no real brand markings on any of your photos. It might have been located over the crt bezel. I would suggest removing the case covers and look at the components inside. You might get a clue of the manufacturer from the markings on the pc boards and component origin such as electrolytics, semiconductor and ic markings as its sourcing.
It does look pretty complete as far as functionality is concerned. From the horz timebase its vert bandwidth might be a bit limited but OK for general use. You might want to look at eBay for a set of probes.
If you don't get an ID soon post pictures of the insides.
Have fun. Getting your first DVM and scope are always worth remembering.
testtest, Sat Mar 09 2013, 10:52PM
Does reminds me of my old Hitachi.
Funny that there are no real brand markings on any of your photos. It might have been located over the crt bezel. I would suggest removing the case covers and look at the components inside. You might get a clue of the manufacturer from the markings on the pc boards and component origin such as electrolytics, semiconductor and ic markings as its sourcing.
It does look pretty complete as far as functionality is concerned. From the horz timebase its vert bandwidth might be a bit limited but OK for general use. You might want to look at eBay for a set of probes.
If you don't get an ID soon post pictures of the insides.
Have fun. Getting your first DVM and scope are always worth remembering.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Houdini0118, Sun Mar 10 2013, 12:57AM
you not looking for 1mo probes that the scopes input impedence just get some cheap 1x/10x probes off ebay.
Houdini0118, Sun Mar 10 2013, 12:57AM
you not looking for 1mo probes that the scopes input impedence just get some cheap 1x/10x probes off ebay.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Mattski, Sun Mar 10 2013, 08:43AM
I have a 20MHz Iwatsu scope that goes to .5us/div on the timebase, or 10 cycles per division.
Yours goes to .2us/div so the bandwidth of your scope should be about 50MHz.
Mattski, Sun Mar 10 2013, 08:43AM
I have a 20MHz Iwatsu scope that goes to .5us/div on the timebase, or 10 cycles per division.
Yours goes to .2us/div so the bandwidth of your scope should be about 50MHz.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Sun Mar 10 2013, 12:02PM
Well thanks guys I will open her up tomorrow being mothers day and all .I wasn't sure about buying cheap leads as i was unsure on the MHz , Also everything I read says not to buy cheap ones as the scope is only as good as the leads attached but to be honest I don't know how good the scope is yet .
Thanks again John
HighVoltageProjects, Sun Mar 10 2013, 12:02PM
Well thanks guys I will open her up tomorrow being mothers day and all .I wasn't sure about buying cheap leads as i was unsure on the MHz , Also everything I read says not to buy cheap ones as the scope is only as good as the leads attached but to be honest I don't know how good the scope is yet .
Thanks again John
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Wolfram, Sun Mar 10 2013, 02:27PM
I'm pretty certain it's a Topward, I've had a couple. You can see one in this
picture.
Wolfram, Sun Mar 10 2013, 02:27PM
I'm pretty certain it's a Topward, I've had a couple. You can see one in this
picture.Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
klugesmith, Sun Mar 10 2013, 04:00PM
Hi John.
Nice scope you got there. It would be silly to open it up hoping to find out the brand and model (which have little to do with the designer or maker, in these anonymous instruments). Component date codes would tell you the approximate age, but who cares?
You can accurately determine the scope's vertical bandwidth by measuring its risetime. Get a "step" signal source (such as a digital device output) with rise or fall time known to be substantially shorter than that of the scope. Contrive a suitably fast connection to the scope's BNC input. We can help with that. Perhaps make it a standard project.
I hope the following isn't insultingly basic, but you did call your acquisition a three-trace scope. (see appendix)
Step 1: Can you power it up and get flat-line traces on the screen? No need for probes -- set the trigger mode to Line or Auto, and the sweep speed around mid-range.
Then don't rush to buy probes. Get a plain old BNC cable and strip the wires at one end. Use it to explore some low voltage signal sources like a battery, a low voltage transformer, or the audio output of a sound gadget.
Before probing voltages high enough to damage the scope, get a 10x probe. (Essentially a holder for a 9 megohm series resistor, with capacitive details that can wait. See appendix.)
Good luck. Happy learning.
-Rich
appendix:
Your scope has two input channels for vertical deflection, and one for an (optional) "external" trigger source. The controls are self-explanatory to anyone with 'scope experience, such as people at boot sales. Can you find someone to teach you in person?
As someone said here , the input channel impedance is 1 megohm (in parallel with 25 pF, but that doesn't matter for now) . You can measure it with an ohmeter. That value is practically universal, and implicitly compatible with almost any ordinary "10x" probe.
klugesmith, Sun Mar 10 2013, 04:00PM
Hi John.
Nice scope you got there. It would be silly to open it up hoping to find out the brand and model (which have little to do with the designer or maker, in these anonymous instruments). Component date codes would tell you the approximate age, but who cares?
You can accurately determine the scope's vertical bandwidth by measuring its risetime. Get a "step" signal source (such as a digital device output) with rise or fall time known to be substantially shorter than that of the scope. Contrive a suitably fast connection to the scope's BNC input. We can help with that. Perhaps make it a standard project.
I hope the following isn't insultingly basic, but you did call your acquisition a three-trace scope. (see appendix)
Step 1: Can you power it up and get flat-line traces on the screen? No need for probes -- set the trigger mode to Line or Auto, and the sweep speed around mid-range.
Then don't rush to buy probes. Get a plain old BNC cable and strip the wires at one end. Use it to explore some low voltage signal sources like a battery, a low voltage transformer, or the audio output of a sound gadget.
Before probing voltages high enough to damage the scope, get a 10x probe. (Essentially a holder for a 9 megohm series resistor, with capacitive details that can wait. See appendix.)
Good luck. Happy learning.
-Rich
appendix:
Your scope has two input channels for vertical deflection, and one for an (optional) "external" trigger source. The controls are self-explanatory to anyone with 'scope experience, such as people at boot sales. Can you find someone to teach you in person?
As someone said here , the input channel impedance is 1 megohm (in parallel with 25 pF, but that doesn't matter for now) . You can measure it with an ohmeter. That value is practically universal, and implicitly compatible with almost any ordinary "10x" probe.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Houdini0118, Sun Mar 10 2013, 05:11PM
i dont think over voltage is that much of a problem dont use your scope on anything over 400 volts without a attenuator or something
Houdini0118, Sun Mar 10 2013, 05:11PM
i dont think over voltage is that much of a problem dont use your scope on anything over 400 volts without a attenuator or something
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
testtest, Sun Mar 10 2013, 05:34PM
On all my scopes (Agilent, Tek, Sony and a few nondescrips) this involves two to four screws to pop the cover off and all have markings as to model and manufacturer on the printed circuit board. Only a few minutes work. Once you have that info, searching for a service or operation manual is much easier..... also the markings on the ICs and transistors are very telling of the origin and quality of the instrument once you put them in Google.
testtest, Sun Mar 10 2013, 05:34PM
klugesmith wrote ...
Hi John.
Nice scope you got there. It would be silly to open it up hoping to find out the brand and model (which have little to do with the designer or maker, in these anonymous instruments). Component date codes would tell you the approximate age, but who cares?
Hi John.
Nice scope you got there. It would be silly to open it up hoping to find out the brand and model (which have little to do with the designer or maker, in these anonymous instruments). Component date codes would tell you the approximate age, but who cares?
On all my scopes (Agilent, Tek, Sony and a few nondescrips) this involves two to four screws to pop the cover off and all have markings as to model and manufacturer on the printed circuit board. Only a few minutes work. Once you have that info, searching for a service or operation manual is much easier..... also the markings on the ICs and transistors are very telling of the origin and quality of the instrument once you put them in Google.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Sun Mar 10 2013, 06:57PM
Ok thanks all ,No nothing said will be insulting .I don't know much about scopes so all this is helpful .I only thought it was 3 trace as I get 3 horizontal flat lines and If I put a signal into all of the 3 channels either at the same time or on there own from the calibration or signal generator I get the same trace (if that's what its called).
I will take the top off as I Don't think it will do any harm and it may have something on/in there.
I really do appreciate all the help though guys thanks John
HighVoltageProjects, Sun Mar 10 2013, 06:57PM
Ok thanks all ,No nothing said will be insulting .I don't know much about scopes so all this is helpful .I only thought it was 3 trace as I get 3 horizontal flat lines and If I put a signal into all of the 3 channels either at the same time or on there own from the calibration or signal generator I get the same trace (if that's what its called).
I will take the top off as I Don't think it will do any harm and it may have something on/in there.
I really do appreciate all the help though guys thanks John
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
testtest, Sun Mar 10 2013, 10:01PM
You might find this link useful then:
If you do remove the cover, power off, keep in mind the high voltages present around the CRT that can still be present and the CRT is under vacuum. Covers should slide effortlessly. Just look for markings and clues.
The one Wolfram linked to does look like it is from the same family. Note the model number over the CRT that does seem to be missing on yours. At least worth a Google search to try to find your exact model.
testtest, Sun Mar 10 2013, 10:01PM
You might find this link useful then:
If you do remove the cover, power off, keep in mind the high voltages present around the CRT that can still be present and the CRT is under vacuum. Covers should slide effortlessly. Just look for markings and clues.
The one Wolfram linked to does look like it is from the same family. Note the model number over the CRT that does seem to be missing on yours. At least worth a Google search to try to find your exact model.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
klugesmith, Mon Mar 11 2013, 12:59AM
Sorry, I wrongly doubted that your scope has three vertical channels. Ch3 is pretty clearly labeled in your pictures.
So I could be wrong about not finding make and model inforrmation inside. Let's see what you find!
Venerable brands like Tektronix and HP (which became Agilent when ejected from HP the computer company) are well labeled outside and on the circuit boards. But if yours -never- had a name on the front, it might be like many generic tools or consumer electronics made in China. A standard product can be made with more than one paint color and brand/model printed on the case, according to which brand name company placed the order for that day's production. One could also crank out an anonymous, generic version, perhaps a near-copy of a popular brand, without being a counterfeiter or pirate.
klugesmith, Mon Mar 11 2013, 12:59AM
Sorry, I wrongly doubted that your scope has three vertical channels. Ch3 is pretty clearly labeled in your pictures.
So I could be wrong about not finding make and model inforrmation inside. Let's see what you find!
Venerable brands like Tektronix and HP (which became Agilent when ejected from HP the computer company) are well labeled outside and on the circuit boards. But if yours -never- had a name on the front, it might be like many generic tools or consumer electronics made in China. A standard product can be made with more than one paint color and brand/model printed on the case, according to which brand name company placed the order for that day's production. One could also crank out an anonymous, generic version, perhaps a near-copy of a popular brand, without being a counterfeiter or pirate.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Mon Mar 11 2013, 07:54PM
I found it Thanks guys its a Topward Model TOS-7022/42 from the Tos-7000 series .It took a whole day of Google to find and i also have a PDF it's on page 7 here [link],40,21,41,22,42,23%29.pdf
maybe someone with knowledge would be able to tell me if it is any good .I only payed £20 so it cant be too bad but it would still be nice to know.
This is my first thread and not sure if i have to close it or anything sorry guys I keep reading the rules but with my medication its really hard at the moment to take them all in THANK YOU ALL .John
HighVoltageProjects, Mon Mar 11 2013, 07:54PM
I found it Thanks guys its a Topward Model TOS-7022/42 from the Tos-7000 series .It took a whole day of Google to find and i also have a PDF it's on page 7 here [link]
,40,21,41,22,42,23%29.pdfmaybe someone with knowledge would be able to tell me if it is any good .I only payed £20 so it cant be too bad but it would still be nice to know.
This is my first thread and not sure if i have to close it or anything sorry guys I keep reading the rules but with my medication its really hard at the moment to take them all in THANK YOU ALL .John
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
testtest, Mon Mar 11 2013, 08:15PM
For the price this is a pretty good buy as a general purpose scope. It has a lot of functionality such as chop, add, alt between traces and such. I assume the traces are bright and sharp (ie: the CRT is not on its last legs)
Keep in mind the Ch3 is really to preview the trigger signal to make sure it is usable, not as a general third vertical channel. Not clear if you have the 20 or 40MHz unit but in either case for general electronics it should be fine. Perfect for analog audio, radio, many digital app etc... For RF work it wont cut it however. If all the functions looks OK get yourself a pair of 50 MHz generic probes with a 1x/10x feature off ebay and you will be in business. They should come with a pin probe, a hook and perhaps an alligator, along with a ground pigtail connector at the handle.
You might want to get or borrow a function generator to check the vertical voltage accuracy on all scales (a quick test with a DC power supply or batteries), the horz sweep speed accuracy and its magnifier, check trigger function and stability and generally run the scope through its paces. That way you will have a trustworthy instrument.
Have fun.
testtest, Mon Mar 11 2013, 08:15PM
For the price this is a pretty good buy as a general purpose scope. It has a lot of functionality such as chop, add, alt between traces and such. I assume the traces are bright and sharp (ie: the CRT is not on its last legs)
Keep in mind the Ch3 is really to preview the trigger signal to make sure it is usable, not as a general third vertical channel. Not clear if you have the 20 or 40MHz unit but in either case for general electronics it should be fine. Perfect for analog audio, radio, many digital app etc... For RF work it wont cut it however. If all the functions looks OK get yourself a pair of 50 MHz generic probes with a 1x/10x feature off ebay and you will be in business. They should come with a pin probe, a hook and perhaps an alligator, along with a ground pigtail connector at the handle.
You might want to get or borrow a function generator to check the vertical voltage accuracy on all scales (a quick test with a DC power supply or batteries), the horz sweep speed accuracy and its magnifier, check trigger function and stability and generally run the scope through its paces. That way you will have a trustworthy instrument.
Have fun.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Tue Mar 12 2013, 09:00AM
Thanks that is great advice .I have got a function generator that goes to 20MHZ and all seams great with the CRT it's very bright and a lot thinner than i thought it would go after a little adjustment
It is 40Mhz which is a shame as I really wanted to be able to tune a VTTC with it but hey £20 I'm not complaining
HighVoltageProjects, Tue Mar 12 2013, 09:00AM
richnormand wrote ...
For the price this is a pretty good buy as a general purpose scope. It has a lot of functionality such as chop, add, alt between traces and such. I assume the traces are bright and sharp (ie: the CRT is not on its last legs)
Keep in mind the Ch3 is really to preview the trigger signal to make sure it is usable, not as a general third vertical channel. Not clear if you have the 20 or 40MHz unit but in either case for general electronics it should be fine. Perfect for analog audio, radio, many digital app etc... For RF work it wont cut it however. If all the functions looks OK get yourself a pair of 50 MHz generic probes with a 1x/10x feature off ebay and you will be in business. They should come with a pin probe, a hook and perhaps an alligator, along with a ground pigtail connector at the handle.
You might want to get or borrow a function generator to check the vertical voltage accuracy on all scales (a quick test with a DC power supply or batteries), the horz sweep speed accuracy and its magnifier, check trigger function and stability and generally run the scope through its paces. That way you will have a trustworthy instrument.
Have fun.
For the price this is a pretty good buy as a general purpose scope. It has a lot of functionality such as chop, add, alt between traces and such. I assume the traces are bright and sharp (ie: the CRT is not on its last legs)
Keep in mind the Ch3 is really to preview the trigger signal to make sure it is usable, not as a general third vertical channel. Not clear if you have the 20 or 40MHz unit but in either case for general electronics it should be fine. Perfect for analog audio, radio, many digital app etc... For RF work it wont cut it however. If all the functions looks OK get yourself a pair of 50 MHz generic probes with a 1x/10x feature off ebay and you will be in business. They should come with a pin probe, a hook and perhaps an alligator, along with a ground pigtail connector at the handle.
You might want to get or borrow a function generator to check the vertical voltage accuracy on all scales (a quick test with a DC power supply or batteries), the horz sweep speed accuracy and its magnifier, check trigger function and stability and generally run the scope through its paces. That way you will have a trustworthy instrument.
Have fun.
Thanks that is great advice .I have got a function generator that goes to 20MHZ and all seams great with the CRT it's very bright and a lot thinner than i thought it would go after a little adjustment
It is 40Mhz which is a shame as I really wanted to be able to tune a VTTC with it but hey £20 I'm not complaining
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Steve Conner, Tue Mar 12 2013, 10:02AM
What makes you think you need a scope better than 40MHz to tune a VTTC?
Steve Conner, Tue Mar 12 2013, 10:02AM
What makes you think you need a scope better than 40MHz to tune a VTTC?
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Conundrum, Tue Mar 12 2013, 11:02AM
You can use a prescaler to do that.
I've heard of people repurposing old analogue TV tuners for this, as they can be adjusted over a wide range and are somewhat robust.
Also handy:- a frequency counter to calibrate things.
Conundrum, Tue Mar 12 2013, 11:02AM
You can use a prescaler to do that.
I've heard of people repurposing old analogue TV tuners for this, as they can be adjusted over a wide range and are somewhat robust.
Also handy:- a frequency counter to calibrate things.
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Tue Mar 12 2013, 12:15PM
Hi I thought my VTTC was going to be around 50MHz as I'm using 2 x GU-81M pentodes ,but it turns out i was wrong it will be more like 6 MHz which is great .
Also I do have a frequency counter on its way,I might post that in projects as I brought it working but 3 of the nixie tubes have stopped working ,but that could be an easy fix especially once my scope probes turn up .Thanks again everyone
HighVoltageProjects, Tue Mar 12 2013, 12:15PM
Hi I thought my VTTC was going to be around 50MHz as I'm using 2 x GU-81M pentodes ,but it turns out i was wrong it will be more like 6 MHz which is great .
Also I do have a frequency counter on its way,I might post that in projects as I brought it working but 3 of the nixie tubes have stopped working ,but that could be an easy fix especially once my scope probes turn up .Thanks again everyone
Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
Steve Conner, Tue Mar 12 2013, 12:38PM
50MHz is a pretty extreme frequency for a VTTC. The secondary would only have about 10 turns and the output would be a blowtorch-like flame. (see zilipoper's videos on youtube ) If you go by the usual plans available on the internet, the operating frequency will be more like 500kHz.
Steve Conner, Tue Mar 12 2013, 12:38PM
50MHz is a pretty extreme frequency for a VTTC. The secondary would only have about 10 turns and the output would be a blowtorch-like flame. (see zilipoper's videos on youtube
) If you go by the usual plans available on the internet, the operating frequency will be more like 500kHz.Re: Unidentified oscilloscope Please help
HighVoltageProjects, Tue Mar 12 2013, 02:27PM
Hey your right sorry you have to excuse my mindlessness I'm In a lot of pain right now and have to take morphine so my head is all ova the place . I was going on the tube rating at 3kv but I the secondary made already so when I get my probes ,frequency generator and counter through the post and got the counter fixed I'll add it as a projects .Sorry and again thank you
HighVoltageProjects, Tue Mar 12 2013, 02:27PM
Steve Conner wrote ...
50MHz is a pretty extreme frequency for a VTTC. The secondary would only have about 10 turns and the output would be a blowtorch-like flame. (see zilipoper's videos on youtube ) If you go by the usual plans available on the internet, the operating frequency will be more like 500kHz.
50MHz is a pretty extreme frequency for a VTTC. The secondary would only have about 10 turns and the output would be a blowtorch-like flame. (see zilipoper's videos on youtube
) If you go by the usual plans available on the internet, the operating frequency will be more like 500kHz.Hey your right sorry you have to excuse my mindlessness I'm In a lot of pain right now and have to take morphine so my head is all ova the place . I was going on the tube rating at 3kv but I the secondary made already so when I get my probes ,frequency generator and counter through the post and got the counter fixed I'll add it as a projects .Sorry and again thank you
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