Pcb
Ben Solon, Sat Aug 11 2012, 04:10AMRadioShack pcb material is a pain in the @$$. Does anyone know what the stuff is actually made of?
I don't like it because the substrate is brittle and won't break along a line. Plus the copper is thicker than normal, but I won't complain about that
I've really been meaning to rid myself of it forever by switching over to the cheaper(and better) material on the internets.
Re: Pcb
ConKbot of Doom, Sat Aug 11 2012, 04:33AM
I think most likely FR-1 or FR-2, which is basically epoxy and paper fiber to make a PCB instead of glass fiber that is used in FR-4 which is common in "nice" PCBs
However that being said, what do you have online thats cheaper and better? most FR-4 based protoboards are pricey compared to radio shack protoboards
ConKbot of Doom, Sat Aug 11 2012, 04:33AM
I think most likely FR-1 or FR-2, which is basically epoxy and paper fiber to make a PCB instead of glass fiber that is used in FR-4 which is common in "nice" PCBs
However that being said, what do you have online thats cheaper and better? most FR-4 based protoboards are pricey compared to radio shack protoboards
Re: Pcb
Ben Solon, Sat Aug 11 2012, 03:30PM
you can buy whole boxload assortments of fr4 on ebay, but if you wanted to buy individuality you could buy from electronics goldmine.
Ben Solon, Sat Aug 11 2012, 03:30PM
you can buy whole boxload assortments of fr4 on ebay, but if you wanted to buy individuality you could buy from electronics goldmine.
Re: Pcb
Sigurthr, Sat Aug 11 2012, 03:47PM
I've been wanting to get some FR4 stuff for a while but it seems to be far more expensive - to the point that I gave up searching.
I've been using the pre-drilled and pre-etched perfboard item no: 276-147 from RadioShack with good success. It is a fairly decent size board for only $4 and will break along hole lines if you use flush cutters on it. A bit of a pain to have to solder-bridge all your traces, and it sure does eat up solder, but well done solder-bridge "traces" are low inductance, low impedance, and removable/reworkable.
I haven't tried etching my own PCBs yet though because even though my local store sells copper clad boards, they don't carry etchant chemicals. I also don't have a laser printer, so I haven't had enough of a reason to try shipping in chemicals, but the thought of paying HazMaz fees makes me shudder. Sometimes I'm tempted to fork out the >$51 (the cheapest price for a minimum of 3 tiny boards) ExpressPCB charges.
Sigurthr, Sat Aug 11 2012, 03:47PM
I've been wanting to get some FR4 stuff for a while but it seems to be far more expensive - to the point that I gave up searching.
I've been using the pre-drilled and pre-etched perfboard item no: 276-147 from RadioShack with good success. It is a fairly decent size board for only $4 and will break along hole lines if you use flush cutters on it. A bit of a pain to have to solder-bridge all your traces, and it sure does eat up solder, but well done solder-bridge "traces" are low inductance, low impedance, and removable/reworkable.
I haven't tried etching my own PCBs yet though because even though my local store sells copper clad boards, they don't carry etchant chemicals. I also don't have a laser printer, so I haven't had enough of a reason to try shipping in chemicals, but the thought of paying HazMaz fees makes me shudder. Sometimes I'm tempted to fork out the >$51 (the cheapest price for a minimum of 3 tiny boards) ExpressPCB charges.
Re: Pcb
Ben Solon, Sat Aug 11 2012, 04:01PM
as i posted in a thread recently, both batchpcb and futurlec both sell decent sized pcb's for under $40.
personal i gave up both toner transfer and photo resist because i couldn't get either to work consistently. now i just cut the traces out on my cnc mill. and to cut out a board on the mill, i have to manually write up a big block of gcode just to do that. its not hard really, gcode is extremely easy xyz absolute positioning line by line, but to do it for every board(some of which are irregularly shaped) it gets old.
and i did solder bridge soldering for a while too, but its a waste of solder, and takes hours of work and rework to do anything the size and scale of the complex boards i now do.(smd, double sided, etc.)
Ben Solon, Sat Aug 11 2012, 04:01PM
as i posted in a thread recently, both batchpcb and futurlec both sell decent sized pcb's for under $40.
personal i gave up both toner transfer and photo resist because i couldn't get either to work consistently. now i just cut the traces out on my cnc mill. and to cut out a board on the mill, i have to manually write up a big block of gcode just to do that. its not hard really, gcode is extremely easy xyz absolute positioning line by line, but to do it for every board(some of which are irregularly shaped) it gets old.
and i did solder bridge soldering for a while too, but its a waste of solder, and takes hours of work and rework to do anything the size and scale of the complex boards i now do.(smd, double sided, etc.)
Re: Pcb
Turkey9, Sun Aug 12 2012, 02:16AM
If you're looking for a PCB fab house, Advanced Circuits does a $33 two layer and $66 four layer board deal. Smallest dimensions are .006" traces and clearance, with .015" holes. The website says that this deal is for a minimum of 6 boards, but if you put student in the comments they waive the min order. They're based out of Denver, ship anywhere, and are of great quality.
Turkey9, Sun Aug 12 2012, 02:16AM
If you're looking for a PCB fab house, Advanced Circuits does a $33 two layer and $66 four layer board deal. Smallest dimensions are .006" traces and clearance, with .015" holes. The website says that this deal is for a minimum of 6 boards, but if you put student in the comments they waive the min order. They're based out of Denver, ship anywhere, and are of great quality.
Re: Pcb
Killa-X, Sun Aug 12 2012, 04:41PM
Well, before I started buying online I was a radioshack user and i never once had issues with breaking their proto boards in half along the lines, or soldering to them...I actually liked them for the thicker copper to handle more power.
Over time I found radioshack over-sells products. $2 for a 555? You've got to be kidding me...
I never do breadboards/protoboards anymore. If i want to test a board, or assemble something, I bring out a 3" x 4" sheet of copper clad, print onto it, and etch it. Your talking at most 10 minutes of work to get a board in your hands to solder up so.. I'm 100% done with boards like that :)
I use toner + gloss paper + radioshack etcher. Always comes out perfect.
A few times I forget to iron the edges and like the boards on the left, the lettering is messed. But the circuit parts, pristine :)
Killa-X, Sun Aug 12 2012, 04:41PM
Well, before I started buying online I was a radioshack user and i never once had issues with breaking their proto boards in half along the lines, or soldering to them...I actually liked them for the thicker copper to handle more power.
Over time I found radioshack over-sells products. $2 for a 555? You've got to be kidding me...
I never do breadboards/protoboards anymore. If i want to test a board, or assemble something, I bring out a 3" x 4" sheet of copper clad, print onto it, and etch it. Your talking at most 10 minutes of work to get a board in your hands to solder up so.. I'm 100% done with boards like that :)
I use toner + gloss paper + radioshack etcher. Always comes out perfect.
A few times I forget to iron the edges and like the boards on the left, the lettering is messed. But the circuit parts, pristine :)
Re: Pcb
ConKbot of Doom, Mon Aug 13 2012, 03:08AM
Now thats an expensive 555!
ConKbot of Doom, Mon Aug 13 2012, 03:08AM
Killa-X wrote ...
Well, before I started buying online I was a radioshack user and i never once had issues with breaking their proto boards in half along the lines, or soldering to them...I actually liked them for the thicker copper to handle more power.
Over time I found radioshack over-sells products. $2 for a 555? You've got to be kidding me...
I never do breadboards/protoboards anymore. If i want to test a board, or assemble something, I bring out a 3" x 4" sheet of copper clad, print onto it, and etch it. Your talking at most 10 minutes of work to get a board in your hands to solder up so.. I'm 100% done with boards like that :)
I use toner + gloss paper + radioshack etcher. Always comes out perfect.
A few times I forget to iron the edges and like the boards on the left, the lettering is messed. But the circuit parts, pristine :)
Well, before I started buying online I was a radioshack user and i never once had issues with breaking their proto boards in half along the lines, or soldering to them...I actually liked them for the thicker copper to handle more power.
Over time I found radioshack over-sells products. $2 for a 555? You've got to be kidding me...
I never do breadboards/protoboards anymore. If i want to test a board, or assemble something, I bring out a 3" x 4" sheet of copper clad, print onto it, and etch it. Your talking at most 10 minutes of work to get a board in your hands to solder up so.. I'm 100% done with boards like that :)
I use toner + gloss paper + radioshack etcher. Always comes out perfect.
A few times I forget to iron the edges and like the boards on the left, the lettering is messed. But the circuit parts, pristine :)
Now thats an expensive 555!
Re: Pcb
Ben Solon, Mon Aug 13 2012, 03:17AM
Its probably supposed to be 20 cents... One time mouser had a $800 'lytic priced at 8$, so I think someone who's putting this stuff in misses some decimal places sometimes. Btw, I bought that cap
Killa-X, I don't proto anymore either. In my first post I said hat I now cnc etch my boards. Perfboard is easy to break. Fr1/2 is not! And I can tell from your picture that you have fr4, so I know you agree with me on rs boards!
Ben Solon, Mon Aug 13 2012, 03:17AM
Its probably supposed to be 20 cents... One time mouser had a $800 'lytic priced at 8$, so I think someone who's putting this stuff in misses some decimal places sometimes. Btw, I bought that cap
Killa-X, I don't proto anymore either. In my first post I said hat I now cnc etch my boards. Perfboard is easy to break. Fr1/2 is not! And I can tell from your picture that you have fr4, so I know you agree with me on rs boards!
Re: Pcb
HV Enthusiast, Mon Aug 13 2012, 01:11PM
Radio shack is not a parts supplier. They sell these chips in single pieces, which means they purchase them, then have to create their own custom labels and packaging, repackaging labor, shipping labor twice, and touch labor. They merely provide them as a convenience, just as a convenience stores provide milk which are marked up considerable over what it costs at the supermarket. Parts suppliers such as digikey etc... can sell them much cheaper because they buy direct from manufacturer, and just slap these things in ESD bag, and they sell millions of them.
HV Enthusiast, Mon Aug 13 2012, 01:11PM
Killa-X wrote ...
Over time I found radioshack over-sells products. $2 for a 555? You've got to be kidding me...
Over time I found radioshack over-sells products. $2 for a 555? You've got to be kidding me...
Radio shack is not a parts supplier. They sell these chips in single pieces, which means they purchase them, then have to create their own custom labels and packaging, repackaging labor, shipping labor twice, and touch labor. They merely provide them as a convenience, just as a convenience stores provide milk which are marked up considerable over what it costs at the supermarket. Parts suppliers such as digikey etc... can sell them much cheaper because they buy direct from manufacturer, and just slap these things in ESD bag, and they sell millions of them.
Re: Pcb
Forty, Wed Aug 15 2012, 03:50PM
abcfab is who i got my boards from on ebay. Pretty decent selection and a good price. If you need an etchant, go to the hardware store and get some muriatic acid and mix it with h2o2.
ben did you actually get some of those 500v 8200uf lytics i found for <$8 ?
Forty, Wed Aug 15 2012, 03:50PM
abcfab is who i got my boards from on ebay. Pretty decent selection and a good price. If you need an etchant, go to the hardware store and get some muriatic acid and mix it with h2o2.
ben did you actually get some of those 500v 8200uf lytics i found for <$8 ?
Re: Pcb
Ben Solon, Wed Aug 15 2012, 05:06PM
yep XD i think is still have the pdf bill floating around too, let me dig it up.
edit: here ]mouser_receipt_20292412.pdf[/file] its all the way at the bottom
Ben Solon, Wed Aug 15 2012, 05:06PM
yep XD i think is still have the pdf bill floating around too, let me dig it up.
edit: here ]mouser_receipt_20292412.pdf[/file] its all the way at the bottom
Re: Pcb
HV Enthusiast, Wed Aug 15 2012, 05:52PM
I think those caps are around $300 new, not $800.
HV Enthusiast, Wed Aug 15 2012, 05:52PM
ben123324 wrote ...
Its probably supposed to be 20 cents... One time mouser had a $800 'lytic priced at 8$, so I think someone who's putting this stuff in misses some decimal places sometimes. Btw, I bought that cap
Killa-X, I don't proto anymore either. In my first post I said hat I now cnc etch my boards. Perfboard is easy to break. Fr1/2 is not! And I can tell from your picture that you have fr4, so I know you agree with me on rs boards!
Its probably supposed to be 20 cents... One time mouser had a $800 'lytic priced at 8$, so I think someone who's putting this stuff in misses some decimal places sometimes. Btw, I bought that cap
Killa-X, I don't proto anymore either. In my first post I said hat I now cnc etch my boards. Perfboard is easy to break. Fr1/2 is not! And I can tell from your picture that you have fr4, so I know you agree with me on rs boards!
I think those caps are around $300 new, not $800.
Re: Pcb
Sigurthr, Thu Aug 16 2012, 01:29PM
So for all you guys who use PCB Fab services, what pcb cad programs are you using? If I can find a cheaper than ExpressPCB priced fab service with decent quality that accepts free or low cost cad software designs I'd be set for my projects. I'm currently spending hours and hours and tons of eutetic solder on solder-bridge construction.
The reason I got in to ExpressPCB was the free software. I know a lot of places take Eagle, but I don't have that kind of cash ($70 to $170 for cheapest versions) for software!
Sigurthr, Thu Aug 16 2012, 01:29PM
So for all you guys who use PCB Fab services, what pcb cad programs are you using? If I can find a cheaper than ExpressPCB priced fab service with decent quality that accepts free or low cost cad software designs I'd be set for my projects. I'm currently spending hours and hours and tons of eutetic solder on solder-bridge construction.
The reason I got in to ExpressPCB was the free software. I know a lot of places take Eagle, but I don't have that kind of cash ($70 to $170 for cheapest versions) for software!
Re: Pcb
Ben Solon, Thu Aug 16 2012, 05:14PM
eagle has a free version with the only limit of board size. i don't think very many hobbyists have ever paid for the full version. plus its EXTREMELY useful for any small signal electronics.
Ben Solon, Thu Aug 16 2012, 05:14PM
eagle has a free version with the only limit of board size. i don't think very many hobbyists have ever paid for the full version. plus its EXTREMELY useful for any small signal electronics.
Re: Pcb
rp181, Thu Aug 16 2012, 06:43PM
Any decent EDA package will be be able to export Gerber files. The board house shouldn't even know what package you use.
I.e. pick what you like and use it, learn how to use the CAM processor and how gerber files are used.
The free version of eagle is fine for most people. I bought the professional version when I needed the capabilities simply because it was cheaper then a package like Altium or Pulsonix.
rp181, Thu Aug 16 2012, 06:43PM
Any decent EDA package will be be able to export Gerber files. The board house shouldn't even know what package you use.
I.e. pick what you like and use it, learn how to use the CAM processor and how gerber files are used.
The free version of eagle is fine for most people. I bought the professional version when I needed the capabilities simply because it was cheaper then a package like Altium or Pulsonix.
Re: Pcb
genious 7, Fri Aug 17 2012, 01:50AM
For small one-offs without a hurry, osh provides a decent price.
You better like purple pcb's, though.
genious 7, Fri Aug 17 2012, 01:50AM
For small one-offs without a hurry, osh provides a decent price.
You better like purple pcb's, though.
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