Tesla motors
Ben, Thu Aug 03 2006, 02:43PMTesla motors
Anyone here converted their own car?
Re: Tesla motors
dan, Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:03PM
Damn even the engineering section is one big sales pitch. I mean it took an entire paragraph just to say it uses and induction motor. My concern is not the efficiency of the motor but that of the power electronics to convert the DC to AC. Plus at last check lithium ion batteries are still rather pricey. Gas is still cheaper when you consider the cost of electricity to charge it. So your not really saving anything and charge time would be pathetic. I mean if you’re running low on gas you can just pull into a gas station and fill up in a matter of minutes. Assuming you can just plug it into any outlet it would probably take hours to recharge.(unless it's a hybrid then the gas engine can take over) I'm all for greener technology but this is just moving the pollution from cars to fossil fuel power plants. Until we switch over completely to solar/wind/hydro/(nuke
) power then there really isn't much point to have an electric car. [/rant]
dan, Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:03PM
Damn even the engineering section is one big sales pitch. I mean it took an entire paragraph just to say it uses and induction motor. My concern is not the efficiency of the motor but that of the power electronics to convert the DC to AC. Plus at last check lithium ion batteries are still rather pricey. Gas is still cheaper when you consider the cost of electricity to charge it. So your not really saving anything and charge time would be pathetic. I mean if you’re running low on gas you can just pull into a gas station and fill up in a matter of minutes. Assuming you can just plug it into any outlet it would probably take hours to recharge.(unless it's a hybrid then the gas engine can take over) I'm all for greener technology but this is just moving the pollution from cars to fossil fuel power plants. Until we switch over completely to solar/wind/hydro/(nuke
) power then there really isn't much point to have an electric car. [/rant]Re: Tesla motors
Pete, Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:22PM
Well I haven't converted my car, but I did build an electric bicycle. And I can say that I do not contribute to the use of fossil fuels. I have a great setup. It is a 600 watt electric motor that I was able to adapt to my rear tire by some nifty welded tubing, sprocket and bike chain.
But the beauty is in the charging system.
I have taken an older bicycle, made it stationary and adapted a generator to it. I run the output to an inverter to take it to 120v AC because my battery charger is a bought unit and runs AC. That in turn charges my battery pack. I pedal at home and it charges everything.
The whole things was a bit expensive though. 2 bicycles, chargers, generators, controllers and Li-ion batteries were a bit much.
But, I can pedal and get exercise at home and ride around outside on my electric bike.
Pete
Pete, Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:22PM
Well I haven't converted my car, but I did build an electric bicycle. And I can say that I do not contribute to the use of fossil fuels. I have a great setup. It is a 600 watt electric motor that I was able to adapt to my rear tire by some nifty welded tubing, sprocket and bike chain.
But the beauty is in the charging system.
I have taken an older bicycle, made it stationary and adapted a generator to it. I run the output to an inverter to take it to 120v AC because my battery charger is a bought unit and runs AC. That in turn charges my battery pack. I pedal at home and it charges everything.
The whole things was a bit expensive though. 2 bicycles, chargers, generators, controllers and Li-ion batteries were a bit much.
But, I can pedal and get exercise at home and ride around outside on my electric bike.
Pete
Re: Tesla motors
Ben, Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:58PM
Why not just pedal around outside?? Rube goldberg exercise?
The only advantage I see is that central generation can be more efficient(perhaps enough to offset transmission and conversion losses), and the pollution from it can be more easily controlled.
I don't think electric cars will really catch on until ultracapacitors get large enough, or fuel cells get cheap enough.
Still this car does 0-60 in 4 seconds. They seem to think a gt edition would do it in 2.9 s. I just want one for that reason. Of course at $100,000, it's a bit steep.
This article says there will eventually be a $45-$50k version, which if it has the same performance, I would seriously consider.
Also that article has a pretty compelling argument for central generation in terms of efficiency and grams of CO2 released per km of travel
Ben, Thu Aug 03 2006, 03:58PM
Why not just pedal around outside?? Rube goldberg exercise?
The only advantage I see is that central generation can be more efficient(perhaps enough to offset transmission and conversion losses), and the pollution from it can be more easily controlled.
I don't think electric cars will really catch on until ultracapacitors get large enough, or fuel cells get cheap enough.
Still this car does 0-60 in 4 seconds. They seem to think a gt edition would do it in 2.9 s. I just want one for that reason. Of course at $100,000, it's a bit steep.
This article says there will eventually be a $45-$50k version, which if it has the same performance, I would seriously consider.
Also that article has a pretty compelling argument for central generation in terms of efficiency and grams of CO2 released per km of travel
Re: Tesla motors
dan, Thu Aug 03 2006, 04:02PM
It's probably more efficient just to pedal when you ride your bike.
Is the motor strong enough to get you up a steep hill at a decent speed? How far can you usually get on a full charge? What’s the top speed? I always wanted to build an electric bike but they are illegal here. (Here in canada they are classified as a motor vehicle and since they don't have signals, licence plates or a way to register them as such they are illegal to drive on any public road. 
)
dan, Thu Aug 03 2006, 04:02PM
It's probably more efficient just to pedal when you ride your bike.
Is the motor strong enough to get you up a steep hill at a decent speed? How far can you usually get on a full charge? What’s the top speed? I always wanted to build an electric bike but they are illegal here. (Here in canada they are classified as a motor vehicle and since they don't have signals, licence plates or a way to register them as such they are illegal to drive on any public road. )Re: Tesla motors
Alex, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:13PM
On the topic of price... They don't give one, but here's my guess: Way more than your average schmuck can afford.
Neat car though. Where do I sign up for beta testing?
Alex, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:13PM
dan wrote ...
Plus at last check lithium ion batteries are still rather pricey. Gas is still cheaper when you consider the cost of electricity to charge it. So your not really saving anything and charge time would be pathetic. I mean if you’re running low on gas you can just pull into a gas station and fill up in a matter of minutes. Assuming you can just plug it into any outlet it would probably take hours to recharge.(unless it's a hybrid then the gas engine can take over) I'm all for greener technology but this is just moving the pollution from cars to fossil fuel power plants.
The idea is that you charge it up at home and run it all day (maybe you'd plug it in at work, too). A full charge takes "as little as" 3.5 hours. so it's probably impractical to, say, try to drive from Maine to Florida over the weekend. How much you're actually saving in terms of oil usage depends on how you get your electricity. The electricity for my town comes from a hydroelectric dam.Plus at last check lithium ion batteries are still rather pricey. Gas is still cheaper when you consider the cost of electricity to charge it. So your not really saving anything and charge time would be pathetic. I mean if you’re running low on gas you can just pull into a gas station and fill up in a matter of minutes. Assuming you can just plug it into any outlet it would probably take hours to recharge.(unless it's a hybrid then the gas engine can take over) I'm all for greener technology but this is just moving the pollution from cars to fossil fuel power plants.
On the topic of price... They don't give one, but here's my guess: Way more than your average schmuck can afford.
Neat car though. Where do I sign up for beta testing?
Re: Tesla motors
Pete, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:29PM
It was a post in futility. An Idea in Rube Goldbergness. I actually rent a bike when I go. I don't actually own a bike.
But I thought it was a novel Idea. :)
But along the same lines, there was a predacessor to this. IT was called the T-Zero I believe. IT had about the same range. Good acceleration and speed. Li-ion system. Expensive and poorly marketed.
Pete, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:29PM
It was a post in futility. An Idea in Rube Goldbergness. I actually rent a bike when I go. I don't actually own a bike.
But I thought it was a novel Idea. :)
But along the same lines, there was a predacessor to this. IT was called the T-Zero I believe. IT had about the same range. Good acceleration and speed. Li-ion system. Expensive and poorly marketed.
Re: Tesla motors
Ben, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:46PM
As for beta testing a car, they usually leave that to professionals, because a car crash is a little more profound than a BSOD.
Ben, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:46PM
Alex wrote ...
On the topic of price... They don't give one, but here's my guess: Way more than your average schmuck can afford.
From the article I linked:On the topic of price... They don't give one, but here's my guess: Way more than your average schmuck can afford.
wrote ...
We have 100 collector's edition cars for sale that require a $100,000 up front deposit for purchase and only a few units are left.
We have 100 collector's edition cars for sale that require a $100,000 up front deposit for purchase and only a few units are left.
As for beta testing a car, they usually leave that to professionals, because a car crash is a little more profound than a BSOD.
Re: Tesla motors
Alex, Thu Aug 03 2006, 06:51PM
I guess I skimmed over your post.. 100k is a bit much, but 45-50k isn't so bad for a fancy car like that, and you wouldn't be unloading your wallet at the pump anymore, so that could go towards payments.
Alex, Thu Aug 03 2006, 06:51PM
Ben wrote ...
As for beta testing a car, they usually leave that to professionals, because a car crash is a little more profound than a BSOD.
Indeed.As for beta testing a car, they usually leave that to professionals, because a car crash is a little more profound than a BSOD.
I guess I skimmed over your post.. 100k is a bit much, but 45-50k isn't so bad for a fancy car like that, and you wouldn't be unloading your wallet at the pump anymore, so that could go towards payments.
Re: Tesla motors
benbradley, Thu Aug 03 2006, 07:20PM
Just the other day I read about this, these articles and discussions have interesting comments (of varying quality, as always).
Here are two slashdot stories on it:
Test Driving the Tesla Roadster
Electric Cars and Their Discontents
They link to this Wired story which appears more informative than the Tesla website (or at least most of the hype is removed):
,71414-0.html?tw=rss.index
benbradley, Thu Aug 03 2006, 07:20PM
Just the other day I read about this, these articles and discussions have interesting comments (of varying quality, as always).
Here are two slashdot stories on it:
Test Driving the Tesla Roadster
Electric Cars and Their Discontents
They link to this Wired story which appears more informative than the Tesla website (or at least most of the hype is removed):
,71414-0.html?tw=rss.indexRe: Tesla motors
Electroholic, Fri Aug 04 2006, 09:11AM
how about this one
just look at the fat igbts
Electroholic, Fri Aug 04 2006, 09:11AM
how about this one
just look at the fat igbts
Re: Tesla motors
..., Fri Aug 04 2006, 04:36PM
Holy smokes! It looks like he has all 6 of the bricks in paralel, PWM'ing the output to the motors-on a water cooled heat sink... By my calculations that is enough to switch 1.8MW of power....
With that much power into the motor, I wonder what kind of cooling he has for them...
..., Fri Aug 04 2006, 04:36PM
Holy smokes! It looks like he has all 6 of the bricks in paralel, PWM'ing the output to the motors-on a water cooled heat sink... By my calculations that is enough to switch 1.8MW of power....
With that much power into the motor, I wonder what kind of cooling he has for them...
Re: Tesla motors
Steve Conner, Fri Aug 04 2006, 05:13PM
The batteries can only push about 9kW each at their peak power. (As far as I know peak power is when the load has dragged them down to half their open-circuit voltage, and if you load it any more, the overall output power actually decreases.) So that limits him to about 200kW peak. That's still about 300 horsepower
These are the kinds of continuous power levels that IGBT bricks were designed for. We tend to run them at much lower average powers in our Tesla coil applications, if only because we don't have 200kW of power handy.
Maybe I should build an electric car as a power source for my next DRSSTC
Steve Conner, Fri Aug 04 2006, 05:13PM
The batteries can only push about 9kW each at their peak power. (As far as I know peak power is when the load has dragged them down to half their open-circuit voltage, and if you load it any more, the overall output power actually decreases.) So that limits him to about 200kW peak. That's still about 300 horsepower
These are the kinds of continuous power levels that IGBT bricks were designed for. We tend to run them at much lower average powers in our Tesla coil applications, if only because we don't have 200kW of power handy.
Maybe I should build an electric car as a power source for my next DRSSTC
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