Repository of knowledge?
Conundrum, Sat May 19 2012, 09:38AMHi all.
With the recent discussions about censorship, and other issues such as unreliable power, etc it got me thinking.
Is it worthwhile for all us 4HV'ers to back up our collected knowledge onto something more substantial than the cloud, so that in the event of a major disaster we can at least rebuild the community?
I suggest copying all the useful files such as semiconductor datasheets, research notes, ongoing projects and suchlike onto non encrypted pendrives, then sending them to one of several geographically separate locations.
Copying over the Net is also feasible as long as file integrity can be guaranteed..
Any comments?
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Sulaiman, Sat May 19 2012, 09:59AM
I've over 5000 semiconductor datasheets on my pc and the ability to run off-grid.
Putting all our datasheets in one cache would not help much, you need to have multiple copies buried all over the world to keep them safe - personal computing would probably punishable by lobotomy anyway.
In such a scenario protecting semiconductor datasheets would not be one of my priorities.
If you are really worried fill a few satelites with all known knowledge and send them into orbits that would make them accessible once a century/millenium etc.
Sulaiman, Sat May 19 2012, 09:59AM
I've over 5000 semiconductor datasheets on my pc and the ability to run off-grid.
Putting all our datasheets in one cache would not help much, you need to have multiple copies buried all over the world to keep them safe - personal computing would probably punishable by lobotomy anyway.
In such a scenario protecting semiconductor datasheets would not be one of my priorities.
If you are really worried fill a few satelites with all known knowledge and send them into orbits that would make them accessible once a century/millenium etc.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Conundrum, Sat May 19 2012, 10:42AM
I was thinking more in the event of a hypothetical 1859 level solar storm wiping out the power grid, or complete failure of the world's IT infrastructure here.
Having backups of things like medical knowledge, as well as improvised power sources would be incredibly useful and could save lives.
Sort of like how amateur radio can be used as a communications channel in the event of a national emergency situation.
Conundrum, Sat May 19 2012, 10:42AM
I was thinking more in the event of a hypothetical 1859 level solar storm wiping out the power grid, or complete failure of the world's IT infrastructure here.
Having backups of things like medical knowledge, as well as improvised power sources would be incredibly useful and could save lives.
Sort of like how amateur radio can be used as a communications channel in the event of a national emergency situation.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Neet Studio, Sat May 19 2012, 01:19PM
Having datasheets around won't do you any good. It is not like they are the semiconductor masks or the actual designs. Even with the actual masks etc., the machinery at the fab are controlled by embedded computers etc and probably not going to work in your scenario.
Old textbook (dead tree edition as opposed to DRM eBook) on the other hand would be much more useful to rebuild/relearn "the world". They don't disappear with EMP. They are in University libraries, book stores and book shelves.
In case of an emergency, your priorities are food, water, medicine, weapons and communications.
Note: "The World" in B-movies always seem to be in North America (or their target market) and not globally. There is a good chance that the other side of the Earth might be okay.
Neet Studio, Sat May 19 2012, 01:19PM
Having datasheets around won't do you any good. It is not like they are the semiconductor masks or the actual designs. Even with the actual masks etc., the machinery at the fab are controlled by embedded computers etc and probably not going to work in your scenario.
Old textbook (dead tree edition as opposed to DRM eBook) on the other hand would be much more useful to rebuild/relearn "the world". They don't disappear with EMP. They are in University libraries, book stores and book shelves.
In case of an emergency, your priorities are food, water, medicine, weapons and communications.
Note: "The World" in B-movies always seem to be in North America (or their target market) and not globally. There is a good chance that the other side of the Earth might be okay.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Ben Solon, Sat May 19 2012, 01:41PM
while building your own semi's after a situation like this(or any other time) is impossible for us, what if we need to build some sort of device after a storm. maybe a radio? any you don't even have info on that rf mosfet you have laying around? i have experienced this sometimes when the isp is down. i am completely unable to advance in a project. sometimes i print out datasheets of parts i commonly use. i think this backup idea is a good idea, but not with flashdrives in one or a few locations. we would have to rebuild the internet to even be able to get everyone access to them.
Ben Solon, Sat May 19 2012, 01:41PM
while building your own semi's after a situation like this(or any other time) is impossible for us, what if we need to build some sort of device after a storm. maybe a radio? any you don't even have info on that rf mosfet you have laying around? i have experienced this sometimes when the isp is down. i am completely unable to advance in a project. sometimes i print out datasheets of parts i commonly use. i think this backup idea is a good idea, but not with flashdrives in one or a few locations. we would have to rebuild the internet to even be able to get everyone access to them.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Neet Studio, Sat May 19 2012, 02:14PM
My first 24hr+ power outage in a high rise building taught me that water, food storage/preparation and heating are my first priorities. Any longer, I would be in an emergency center. I was cooking ramen noodles using a penny stove with isopropyl alcohol for a recent 8 hour outage. ;P
If you can calmly actually sit down and build circuits, that means you are not in much of a "Planet of the Ape" type of disaster.
I hope you do enjoy working with butane soldering iron under candle light and powering your electronics with salt or vinegar batteries...
Neet Studio, Sat May 19 2012, 02:14PM
My first 24hr+ power outage in a high rise building taught me that water, food storage/preparation and heating are my first priorities. Any longer, I would be in an emergency center. I was cooking ramen noodles using a penny stove with isopropyl alcohol for a recent 8 hour outage. ;P
If you can calmly actually sit down and build circuits, that means you are not in much of a "Planet of the Ape" type of disaster.
I hope you do enjoy working with butane soldering iron under candle light and powering your electronics with salt or vinegar batteries...
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Thomas W, Sat May 19 2012, 02:54PM
im just going to hope it doenst happen in my lifetime ^^
Thomas W, Sat May 19 2012, 02:54PM
im just going to hope it doenst happen in my lifetime ^^
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Ash Small, Sat May 19 2012, 07:35PM
Start collecting parts for a vacuum system if you want to DIY your own electronics. Personally I'd forget MOSFET's, etc. and concentrate on valve (vacuum tube) technology.
(See recent threads on DIY vacuum tubes)
These would probably be immune to an EMP anyway.
Ash Small, Sat May 19 2012, 07:35PM
Start collecting parts for a vacuum system if you want to DIY your own electronics. Personally I'd forget MOSFET's, etc. and concentrate on valve (vacuum tube) technology.
(See recent threads on DIY vacuum tubes)
These would probably be immune to an EMP anyway.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
radiotech, Sat May 19 2012, 09:10PM
The grid is only somewhat dependent on the communications/telemetry infrastructure.
It is designed to keep up provided supervisory control signals are valid. After that it reverts
to various degrees of stand down status. (steam systems are tripped, penstock valves close,
and dams open spillways.
With the controls destroyed, power dispatching can still take place, by reverting to
manning substations with operators and running the generation plants locally.
Fusion, fire, water, and rivers provides most of the electricity that people who
live in cities need to survive.
Hinterland dwellers do not really need electricity to survive. By the time the urban
sector could adapt outside a Northern city, most of them would be dead anyway.
radiotech, Sat May 19 2012, 09:10PM
The grid is only somewhat dependent on the communications/telemetry infrastructure.
It is designed to keep up provided supervisory control signals are valid. After that it reverts
to various degrees of stand down status. (steam systems are tripped, penstock valves close,
and dams open spillways.
With the controls destroyed, power dispatching can still take place, by reverting to
manning substations with operators and running the generation plants locally.
Fusion, fire, water, and rivers provides most of the electricity that people who
live in cities need to survive.
Hinterland dwellers do not really need electricity to survive. By the time the urban
sector could adapt outside a Northern city, most of them would be dead anyway.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Steve Conner, Sat May 19 2012, 09:55PM
Don't know about you, but my workshop has an intranet with a server that provides a version control system for code, and dispenses datasheets and other documentation.
The datasheets are on the server because, in this day and age of DatasheetArchive.com buying their way to the top of the search results and making you click through three pages of ads, it's easier to host them locally.
Steve Conner, Sat May 19 2012, 09:55PM
Don't know about you, but my workshop has an intranet with a server that provides a version control system for code, and dispenses datasheets and other documentation.
The datasheets are on the server because, in this day and age of DatasheetArchive.com buying their way to the top of the search results and making you click through three pages of ads, it's easier to host them locally.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Conundrum, Sun May 20 2012, 07:36PM
Interesting.
Shame there aren't really cheap 64GB pendrives, that would be the best way to store every datasheet known to man in a way that doesen't depend on flaky DVD-R's with less than a year shelf life.
-A
Conundrum, Sun May 20 2012, 07:36PM
Interesting.
Shame there aren't really cheap 64GB pendrives, that would be the best way to store every datasheet known to man in a way that doesen't depend on flaky DVD-R's with less than a year shelf life.
-A
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Neet Studio, Sun May 20 2012, 09:06PM
I have been tagging the file names of the datasheets I collected with description of their function as well as parameters as I download them.
So when I need a part or recycle a part from old project, I can search that in my datasheet collection. They save me a bit of time in the long run.
irf7456 20V 16A 0.006R NMOS SO-8.pdf
2SK2843 600V 10A 0.54R NMOS.pdf
I am also starting to include the marking on those smaller SOT23 packages as they are becoming impossible to decipher/remember.
The tags 7Z04. Z04, CC are the making for the various packages. I can do a search for the marking and find out what they are at least.
NC7SZ04 [7Z04,Z04,CC].pdf
Neet Studio, Sun May 20 2012, 09:06PM
I have been tagging the file names of the datasheets I collected with description of their function as well as parameters as I download them.
So when I need a part or recycle a part from old project, I can search that in my datasheet collection. They save me a bit of time in the long run.
irf7456 20V 16A 0.006R NMOS SO-8.pdf
2SK2843 600V 10A 0.54R NMOS.pdf
I am also starting to include the marking on those smaller SOT23 packages as they are becoming impossible to decipher/remember.
The tags 7Z04. Z04, CC are the making for the various packages. I can do a search for the marking and find out what they are at least.
NC7SZ04 [7Z04,Z04,CC].pdf
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Conundrum, Mon May 21 2012, 07:17AM
Another useful thing to have is an "old" 486 PC which should be slightly tougher against EMP.
Best bet for this is an ancient laptop with its battery removed and replaced with a solar converter.
Has to have USB though.
Rumour has it that they tried one of the ancient Compaq LTEs in a test chamber, and it survived something like double the energy density found in a domestic microwave while unpowered.
Nothing else did though.. !
Screen didn't like it much but the laptop still ran and booted afterwards.
If anyone is interested I am working on building a proper EMP test jig using a modified domestic microwave with internal induction heater and pulsed capacitor unit.
It should be able to simulate a wide range of potential waveforms including the classic "oops I just keyed up my 1000W burner next to my Iphone" and the typical range of EMP scenarios you'd expect.
Goes way beyond anything typical CE/EMC would test for, these are worst case here.
Conundrum, Mon May 21 2012, 07:17AM
Another useful thing to have is an "old" 486 PC which should be slightly tougher against EMP.
Best bet for this is an ancient laptop with its battery removed and replaced with a solar converter.
Has to have USB though.
Rumour has it that they tried one of the ancient Compaq LTEs in a test chamber, and it survived something like double the energy density found in a domestic microwave while unpowered.
Nothing else did though.. !
Screen didn't like it much but the laptop still ran and booted afterwards.
If anyone is interested I am working on building a proper EMP test jig using a modified domestic microwave with internal induction heater and pulsed capacitor unit.
It should be able to simulate a wide range of potential waveforms including the classic "oops I just keyed up my 1000W burner next to my Iphone" and the typical range of EMP scenarios you'd expect.
Goes way beyond anything typical CE/EMC would test for, these are worst case here.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Nicko, Mon May 21 2012, 11:30AM
The next most useful thing is having a duplex printer which will print in A5 booklet format. Very useful, that is... saves a stack of paper and is much easier to handle...
Nicko, Mon May 21 2012, 11:30AM
Steve Conner wrote ...
Don't know about you, but my workshop has an intranet with a server that provides a version control system for code, and dispenses datasheets and other documentation.
The datasheets are on the server because, in this day and age of DatasheetArchive.com buying their way to the top of the search results and making you click through three pages of ads, it's easier to host them locally.
For years, for every project I've worked on, I collected all the datasheets, manuals, footprints, schematics, books etc. in a structured tree (datasheets by function/subfunction, manuals by manufacturer & device, books by subject etc.) About 200 Gb now, but because I've always been religious about it, its all there and easy to find... all on my tablet as well... served via the intranet too..Don't know about you, but my workshop has an intranet with a server that provides a version control system for code, and dispenses datasheets and other documentation.
The datasheets are on the server because, in this day and age of DatasheetArchive.com buying their way to the top of the search results and making you click through three pages of ads, it's easier to host them locally.
The next most useful thing is having a duplex printer which will print in A5 booklet format. Very useful, that is... saves a stack of paper and is much easier to handle...
Re: Repository of knowledge?
tobias, Tue May 22 2012, 03:23PM
Nicko,
I would not mind to make backups for you, both in USA and Brazil. That would cover some of the "to have multiple copies buried all over the world"requirement stated by Sulaiman, and as a bonus I would probably be free of the DatasheetArchive.com most of the time!
But I cannot promise to you they would be accessible in case of disaster. I would probably find my way to a nice untouched beach and enjoy the lack of regulation regarding primitive buildings close to the sea.
tobias, Tue May 22 2012, 03:23PM
Nicko,
I would not mind to make backups for you, both in USA and Brazil. That would cover some of the "to have multiple copies buried all over the world"requirement stated by Sulaiman, and as a bonus I would probably be free of the DatasheetArchive.com most of the time!
But I cannot promise to you they would be accessible in case of disaster. I would probably find my way to a nice untouched beach and enjoy the lack of regulation regarding primitive buildings close to the sea.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Thomas W, Tue May 22 2012, 04:11PM
Nicko, id love to make a backup too :3, il happly pay for a HDD or somthing to put it all on and send over if you want to :D
Thomas W, Tue May 22 2012, 04:11PM
Nicko, id love to make a backup too :3, il happly pay for a HDD or somthing to put it all on and send over if you want to :D
Re: Repository of knowledge?
datasheetarchive, Fri May 25 2012, 11:03AM
Hi Everyone,
I work on the Datasheet Archive and wanted get involved in this discussion to improve our user experience. We have a new website launching very soon which addresses many of the issues commonly raised.
I will stress that we do not buy our way to the top of search. We have scanned over 9000 data books for our archive and offer all these scans for free. The project is expensive. We buy the book, remove the spine for scanning (destroying the book), scan in the pages, type the part numbers into a database. On top of this we have 15 years of collecting and archiving from mfg websites. It's a lot of hard work.
I'd like a few of you to give the new demo website a look and provide some feedback. Message here and I will supply a link next week.
Chris
datasheetarchive, Fri May 25 2012, 11:03AM
Hi Everyone,
I work on the Datasheet Archive and wanted get involved in this discussion to improve our user experience. We have a new website launching very soon which addresses many of the issues commonly raised.
I will stress that we do not buy our way to the top of search. We have scanned over 9000 data books for our archive and offer all these scans for free. The project is expensive. We buy the book, remove the spine for scanning (destroying the book), scan in the pages, type the part numbers into a database. On top of this we have 15 years of collecting and archiving from mfg websites. It's a lot of hard work.
I'd like a few of you to give the new demo website a look and provide some feedback. Message here and I will supply a link next week.
Chris
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Ash Small, Fri May 25 2012, 11:36AM
When I'm looking for datasheets I generally look for a link labelled as a pdf to save time, but datasheet archive is useful for some of the more obscure components.
I pay for my internet by the megabyte, so I avoid advertising/unneccessary clicking when I'm able to.
Ash Small, Fri May 25 2012, 11:36AM
When I'm looking for datasheets I generally look for a link labelled as a pdf to save time, but datasheet archive is useful for some of the more obscure components.
I pay for my internet by the megabyte, so I avoid advertising/unneccessary clicking when I'm able to.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Steve Conner, Fri May 25 2012, 12:05PM
Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to check the site out.
To clarify my earlier gripings: I design industrial electronics for a living. So, I'm looking for information on current parts, not obsolete ones. When I type a part number into a search engine, what I want to see is the manufacturer's product page for that part. It is the official source of information, and carries silicon errata, end-of-life warnings and so on.
But more often than not, the product page is forced down the search results by some site that harvests datasheets and re-serves them. On clicking the link, I then have to click through at least one page of ads to get at the actual datasheet, which in turn looks like it was simply a PDF leeched from the page that I wanted in the first place, except that it probably won't be the latest version.
To be fair, there are several of these sites. AllDatasheet and DatasheetCatalog seem to be the main offenders. I did a test with some parts that I commonly use, and DatasheetArchive didn't appear above the official product page for any of them.
I guess this just means that the datasheet sites are better at SEO than the component manufacturers. And who can blame them, since the raison d'etre of these datasheet sites is to raise ad revenue, but the manufacturers have other things to do, like sell chips.
Some manufacturers used to be very bad. Google wouldn't find the part number on their site at all: if you wanted the product page, you had to use the site's own search function. Not so easy if you can't remember what manufacturer the part number belonged to in the first place.
Steve Conner, Fri May 25 2012, 12:05PM
datasheetarchive wrote ...
Hi Everyone,
I work on the Datasheet Archive and wanted get involved in this discussion to improve our user experience. We have a new website launching very soon which addresses many of the issues commonly raised.
Hi Everyone,
I work on the Datasheet Archive and wanted get involved in this discussion to improve our user experience. We have a new website launching very soon which addresses many of the issues commonly raised.
Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to check the site out.
To clarify my earlier gripings: I design industrial electronics for a living. So, I'm looking for information on current parts, not obsolete ones. When I type a part number into a search engine, what I want to see is the manufacturer's product page for that part. It is the official source of information, and carries silicon errata, end-of-life warnings and so on.
But more often than not, the product page is forced down the search results by some site that harvests datasheets and re-serves them. On clicking the link, I then have to click through at least one page of ads to get at the actual datasheet, which in turn looks like it was simply a PDF leeched from the page that I wanted in the first place, except that it probably won't be the latest version.
To be fair, there are several of these sites. AllDatasheet and DatasheetCatalog seem to be the main offenders. I did a test with some parts that I commonly use, and DatasheetArchive didn't appear above the official product page for any of them.
I guess this just means that the datasheet sites are better at SEO than the component manufacturers. And who can blame them, since the raison d'etre of these datasheet sites is to raise ad revenue, but the manufacturers have other things to do, like sell chips.
Some manufacturers used to be very bad. Google wouldn't find the part number on their site at all: if you wanted the product page, you had to use the site's own search function. Not so easy if you can't remember what manufacturer the part number belonged to in the first place.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Neet Studio, Fri May 25 2012, 01:31PM
I do use datasheet archive for the obsoleted parts I have or parts sitting on old PCB. A lot of times (60%-80% or so), just because the keyword appears in the "datasheet" does not mean that it has anything to do with the part#. A larger first page image enough to read might be nice and/or the title of that page. I see that at least for TI parts, the links point to TI's website.
Datasheet archive is the first one I check. Those other site even add an extra page to the datasheets or "tag" them with their name and I avoid them for doing that. :(
For any new designs, I go to the manufacturer's site directly unless they requires registrations or NDA just to see the datasheet. There were at least 2 companies that we had to sign NDA. i.e. Fedex paper with signatures from "Officer" who have signing authority of the company I worked for etc. I flip through a hand full of datasheets in minutes when I initially consider a part as I don't play chess by correspondence. I'll go back to them if I can't any better parts elsewhere.
I pretty much given up on googling for part# as there are too many "selling for leads" and not even the actual part! I really don't want to be bothered to add a full line of exclusions to the search.
Neet Studio, Fri May 25 2012, 01:31PM
I do use datasheet archive for the obsoleted parts I have or parts sitting on old PCB. A lot of times (60%-80% or so), just because the keyword appears in the "datasheet" does not mean that it has anything to do with the part#. A larger first page image enough to read might be nice and/or the title of that page. I see that at least for TI parts, the links point to TI's website.
Datasheet archive is the first one I check. Those other site even add an extra page to the datasheets or "tag" them with their name and I avoid them for doing that. :(
For any new designs, I go to the manufacturer's site directly unless they requires registrations or NDA just to see the datasheet. There were at least 2 companies that we had to sign NDA. i.e. Fedex paper with signatures from "Officer" who have signing authority of the company I worked for etc. I flip through a hand full of datasheets in minutes when I initially consider a part as I don't play chess by correspondence. I'll go back to them if I can't any better parts elsewhere.
I pretty much given up on googling for part# as there are too many "selling for leads" and not even the actual part! I really don't want to be bothered to add a full line of exclusions to the search.
Re: Repository of knowledge?
datasheetarchive, Tue Jun 12 2012, 09:46AM
I've updated the Datasheet Archive website. Over 12,500 data books on the site now with less hassle involved with downloading. All feedback welcome from you guys. I appreciate you can help build the site into a better resource.
I answered a couple of very common questions in an alternate thread. Here: EEV thread
datasheetarchive, Tue Jun 12 2012, 09:46AM
I've updated the Datasheet Archive website. Over 12,500 data books on the site now with less hassle involved with downloading. All feedback welcome from you guys. I appreciate you can help build the site into a better resource.
I answered a couple of very common questions in an alternate thread. Here: EEV thread
Re: Repository of knowledge?
Download, Sun Jun 24 2012, 10:45AM
Digitise all of the worlds university level textbooks, every patent, and every peer reviewed article. In total, it would probably be less than 10TB I guess. Then store it at dozens of locations around the world
Download, Sun Jun 24 2012, 10:45AM
Digitise all of the worlds university level textbooks, every patent, and every peer reviewed article. In total, it would probably be less than 10TB I guess. Then store it at dozens of locations around the world
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