Particle(beam) weapon
KV3000, Sat Jul 29 2006, 04:48PMHi,
I don´t know if this is the right forum to discuss, but I´d like to know if its possibile to built such a particle(beam) weapon like in stargate or all the other scifi films.
I know that a plasma can be accelerated through an electric field, but the weapons in the film seems different.
Is there any other way to accellerate particle bursts or of creating a particle beam?
Greets KV3000
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
FastMHz, Sat Jul 29 2006, 05:39PM
I just saw on Science Channel a clip about some uni students who built a prototype nuclear engine where the nuclear energy excites neon gas to turn it to a plasma and then accelerates it out the back. It's certainly not like the weapons in sci-fi as it is only enough energy to slowly accelerate a body in space...but the "exhaust" it technically a particle beam.
FastMHz, Sat Jul 29 2006, 05:39PM
I just saw on Science Channel a clip about some uni students who built a prototype nuclear engine where the nuclear energy excites neon gas to turn it to a plasma and then accelerates it out the back. It's certainly not like the weapons in sci-fi as it is only enough energy to slowly accelerate a body in space...but the "exhaust" it technically a particle beam.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sat Jul 29 2006, 09:04PM
Plasma will disperse and cool immediatelly after it has been ''fired'', andfaster it is fired it will disperse more, especially in air atmosphere and etc.
Proposals for accelerating small number of particles to relativistic speeds (with huge particle accelerators) also suffers from similar problems (atmosphere, scattering) and would require insane amounts of energy to accomplish something
There are couple of good articles in wikipedia about problems with practical use of such.
('possibility of ''plasma rifles'' in real world)
Marko, Sat Jul 29 2006, 09:04PM
KV3000 wrote ...
Hi,
I don´t know if this is the right forum to discuss, but I´d like to know if its possibile to built such a particle(beam) weapon like in stargate or all the other scifi films.
I know that a plasma can be accelerated through an electric field, but the weapons in the film seems different.
Is there any other way to accellerate particle bursts or of creating a particle beam?
Greets KV3000
Hi,
I don´t know if this is the right forum to discuss, but I´d like to know if its possibile to built such a particle(beam) weapon like in stargate or all the other scifi films.
I know that a plasma can be accelerated through an electric field, but the weapons in the film seems different.
Is there any other way to accellerate particle bursts or of creating a particle beam?
Greets KV3000
Plasma will disperse and cool immediatelly after it has been ''fired'', andfaster it is fired it will disperse more, especially in air atmosphere and etc.
Proposals for accelerating small number of particles to relativistic speeds (with huge particle accelerators) also suffers from similar problems (atmosphere, scattering) and would require insane amounts of energy to accomplish something
There are couple of good articles in wikipedia about problems with practical use of such.
('possibility of ''plasma rifles'' in real world)Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Sulaiman, Sat Jul 29 2006, 09:49PM
In the '70s I worked on an accelerator that produced electrons at reletavistic velocities
acceleration was by 80 MW of microwaves in a vacuum.
The beam exited via a thin titanium window and would travel several feet through the air.
During research for this project we came across information about a USSR accelerator
Incredible!
Helium nucleii were accelerated by microwave in an evacuated tube
The amazing thing was that they used massive vacuum pumps and NO window
The pumps produced near vacuum at the sealed end with the other end open
(a high energy alpha beam would destroy any 'window')
I have no documents or proof, but this device it was claimed could
cut the wings off an aeroplane in flight at over 11 km.
The downside was - it was built atached to a nuclear reactor for power supply.
Neither portable nor covert.
Anyone heard of it?
Sulaiman, Sat Jul 29 2006, 09:49PM
In the '70s I worked on an accelerator that produced electrons at reletavistic velocities
acceleration was by 80 MW of microwaves in a vacuum.
The beam exited via a thin titanium window and would travel several feet through the air.
During research for this project we came across information about a USSR accelerator
Incredible!
Helium nucleii were accelerated by microwave in an evacuated tube
The amazing thing was that they used massive vacuum pumps and NO window
The pumps produced near vacuum at the sealed end with the other end open
(a high energy alpha beam would destroy any 'window')
I have no documents or proof, but this device it was claimed could
cut the wings off an aeroplane in flight at over 11 km.
The downside was - it was built atached to a nuclear reactor for power supply.
Neither portable nor covert.
Anyone heard of it?
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sat Jul 29 2006, 10:06PM
Reminds on tesla's famous 'death ray' proposal...
And that sounds like all that crap linked with the thing over ages.
Alpha particles could hardly travel over some significant distance trough air.
And even if they do I doubt there would be any superheating effect, but rather just strong radiation...
Marko, Sat Jul 29 2006, 10:06PM
Helium nucleii were accelerated by microwave in an evacuated tube
The amazing thing was that they used massive vacuum pumps and NO window
The pumps produced near vacuum at the sealed end with the other end open
(a high energy alpha beam would destroy any 'window')
Reminds on tesla's famous 'death ray' proposal...
I have no documents or proof, but this device it was claimed could
cut the wings off an aeroplane in flight at over 11 km.
The downside was - it was built atached to a nuclear reactor for power supply.
Neither portable nor covert.
Anyone heard of it?
And that sounds like all that crap linked with the thing over ages.
Alpha particles could hardly travel over some significant distance trough air.
And even if they do I doubt there would be any superheating effect, but rather just strong radiation...
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
KV3000, Sun Jul 30 2006, 10:39AM
Yeah, that sounds really like tesla´s death rays.
I know; when I tried to launch a plasma-spark with my coilgun I got the same result.
Maybe that problem can be fixed in some time: My ideas were to produce the plasma in a teflon bullet and prevent the plasma so from dispersing for some time or to compress the plasma that its surface is small enough to cut through air.
What about the lauching methode? Is am EM-field the best way to launch a plasma or a particle beam?
I know I´m freaky but I like Scifi and if it´s possibile I´d like to built such a particle(beam) weapon (just for fun).
KV3000
KV3000, Sun Jul 30 2006, 10:39AM
Yeah, that sounds really like tesla´s death rays.
Plasma will disperse and cool immediatelly after it has been ''fired'', andfaster it is fired it will disperse more, especially in air atmosphere and etc.
I know; when I tried to launch a plasma-spark with my coilgun I got the same result.
Maybe that problem can be fixed in some time: My ideas were to produce the plasma in a teflon bullet and prevent the plasma so from dispersing for some time or to compress the plasma that its surface is small enough to cut through air.
What about the lauching methode? Is am EM-field the best way to launch a plasma or a particle beam?
I know I´m freaky but I like Scifi and if it´s possibile I´d like to built such a particle(beam) weapon (just for fun).
KV3000
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Madgyver, Sun Jul 30 2006, 10:58AM
What about heavy particles like Fe Ions in cosmic radiation?
Madgyver, Sun Jul 30 2006, 10:58AM
What about heavy particles like Fe Ions in cosmic radiation?
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Bjørn, Sun Jul 30 2006, 11:59AM
The most energetic particles in cosmic radiation has enough energy to kill a person but they never reach the ground. They will hit an air molecule very quickly and convert into a shower of different particles over a large area.
For those that want to experiment, try using a TW UV laser to blast an tunnel through the air before deploying the particle accellerator.
Bjørn, Sun Jul 30 2006, 11:59AM
The most energetic particles in cosmic radiation has enough energy to kill a person but they never reach the ground. They will hit an air molecule very quickly and convert into a shower of different particles over a large area.
For those that want to experiment, try using a TW UV laser to blast an tunnel through the air before deploying the particle accellerator.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
dan, Sun Jul 30 2006, 12:32PM
Ha.. After firing a TeraWatt laser there really isn't much use of firing a high energy particle accelerator after it down the same path. I mean everything in its path would have been obliterated by the first pulse. but I guess that’s your point.
dan, Sun Jul 30 2006, 12:32PM
Ha.. After firing a TeraWatt laser there really isn't much use of firing a high energy particle accelerator after it down the same path. I mean everything in its path would have been obliterated by the first pulse. but I guess that’s your point.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sun Jul 30 2006, 12:52PM
Except interesting way to deploy accelerated particles there doesn't seem to be much else of tesla's work.
Some of his claims look pretty silly and it is questionable was he sane at all at the time.
'OMG particles' are some of such crazy protons seeming even to defy famous Zatsepin-Kuzmin limit.
I don't know if it would actually generate enough radiation to kill somebody, but it concludes that even a big bunch of such particles couldn't travel too far trough air.
I don't think that any kind of laser could 'evatuate' air from it's path. It could ionise, heat up and rarify it but there would still be enough atoms to weaken our death beam (maybe your TW laser wouldn't even leave much of a target in for it)
If I had such a laser (actually 2 of them) I would rather channel HV trough ionised air
It could make a neat non-lethal weapon if we could pack up a big GW UV laser inside something size of rifle or bazooka.
You can ask TDU how hard is air ionisation actually to acheive with laser over a considerable distance...
One helping thing may be shaping plasma into toroidal rotating vortex wich would stop the dispersing, but plasma would anyway cool down in a fraction of second. I think wikipedia also mentions this somewhere.
Tesladownunder on site tried to make ''ball lightning'' using this technique and it seems that he got some small vortexes of plasma travelling for few meters as maximum, and it was very hard to notice trough all the flash and bang made by 18kj cap bank.
It was accelerated by simple thermal expansion of air inside the cavity.
One could probably use some kind of accelerator to increase it's speed, maybe some kind of 'coilgun' or etc.
Anyway range won't get much more than meters, adn I don't even think that such a vortex would cause anything more than a puff of warm air to target...
Marko, Sun Jul 30 2006, 12:52PM
Except interesting way to deploy accelerated particles there doesn't seem to be much else of tesla's work.
Some of his claims look pretty silly and it is questionable was he sane at all at the time.
The most energetic particles in cosmic radiation has enough energy to kill a person but they never reach the ground. They will hit an air molecule very quickly and convert into a shower of different particles over a large area.
'OMG particles'
are some of such crazy protons seeming even to defy famous Zatsepin-Kuzmin limit.I don't know if it would actually generate enough radiation to kill somebody, but it concludes that even a big bunch of such particles couldn't travel too far trough air.
For those that want to experiment, try using a TW UV laser to blast an tunnel through the air before deploying the particle accellerator.
I don't think that any kind of laser could 'evatuate' air from it's path. It could ionise, heat up and rarify it but there would still be enough atoms to weaken our death beam (maybe your TW laser wouldn't even leave much of a target in for it)
If I had such a laser (actually 2 of them) I would rather channel HV trough ionised air
It could make a neat non-lethal weapon if we could pack up a big GW UV laser inside something size of rifle or bazooka.
You can ask TDU how hard is air ionisation actually to acheive with laser over a considerable distance...
I know; when I tried to launch a plasma-spark with my coilgun I got the same result.
Maybe that problem can be fixed in some time: My ideas were to produce the plasma in a teflon bullet and prevent the plasma so from dispersing for some time or to compress the plasma that its surface is small enough to cut through air.
One helping thing may be shaping plasma into toroidal rotating vortex wich would stop the dispersing, but plasma would anyway cool down in a fraction of second. I think wikipedia also mentions this somewhere.
Tesladownunder on site
tried to make ''ball lightning'' using this technique and it seems that he got some small vortexes of plasma travelling for few meters as maximum, and it was very hard to notice trough all the flash and bang made by 18kj cap bank.It was accelerated by simple thermal expansion of air inside the cavity.
One could probably use some kind of accelerator to increase it's speed, maybe some kind of 'coilgun' or etc.
Anyway range won't get much more than meters, adn I don't even think that such a vortex would cause anything more than a puff of warm air to target...
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Simon, Mon Jul 31 2006, 12:12AM
That is the point. Accelerating particles to incredible velocities and energies is not very hard - in a vacuum. If you have something powerful enough to send subatomic particles a decent distance through air then the particles are not the most dangerous thing around.
As a loose analogy, think of a Tesla coil. You make a big, fancy, powerful coil and if it gives off sparks a metre long you get excited. A metre. As a weapon, it's more effective to hook the tank cap up to something like a taser.
Simon, Mon Jul 31 2006, 12:12AM
dan wrote ...
Ha.. After firing a TeraWatt laser there really isn't much use of firing a high energy particle accelerator after it down the same path. I mean everything in its path would have been obliterated by the first pulse. but I guess that’s your point.
Ha.. After firing a TeraWatt laser there really isn't much use of firing a high energy particle accelerator after it down the same path. I mean everything in its path would have been obliterated by the first pulse. but I guess that’s your point.
That is the point. Accelerating particles to incredible velocities and energies is not very hard - in a vacuum. If you have something powerful enough to send subatomic particles a decent distance through air then the particles are not the most dangerous thing around.
As a loose analogy, think of a Tesla coil. You make a big, fancy, powerful coil and if it gives off sparks a metre long you get excited. A metre. As a weapon, it's more effective to hook the tank cap up to something like a taser.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
KV3000, Mon Jul 31 2006, 08:22PM
I think such a laser can´t be bought at the next surplus store
This weapon mustn´t be lethal. I just want to have some fun with such a particle gun.
KV3000, Mon Jul 31 2006, 08:22PM
For those that want to experiment, try using a TW UV laser to blast an tunnel through the air before deploying the particle accellerator.
I think such a laser can´t be bought at the next surplus store
Anyway range won't get much more than meters, adn I don't even think that such a vortex would cause anything more than a puff of warm air to target...
This weapon mustn´t be lethal. I just want to have some fun with such a particle gun.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Mon Jul 31 2006, 09:30PM
Obivously you didn't look at the topic
I wouldn't call this a 'particle weapon' but rather some kind of plasma-vortex launcher or etc.
HV pulse caps are quite dangerous if you don't know what are you doing, poeople on 4hv mostly don't like others who are trying to blow themselves up...
Marko, Mon Jul 31 2006, 09:30PM
Obivously you didn't look at the topic
I wouldn't call this a 'particle weapon' but rather some kind of plasma-vortex launcher or etc.
HV pulse caps are quite dangerous if you don't know what are you doing, poeople on 4hv mostly don't like others who are trying to blow themselves up...
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
KV3000, Mon Jul 31 2006, 10:18PM
Well, everthing can be lethal, even some baby toys.
I know about the dangers of HV-caps.
With non lethal I mean that there are no TW laser tubes or radiactive particles.
HV-Caps and all the other HV-Stuff is easier to buy and to handle than such big lasers or an OMG particle
KV3000
KV3000, Mon Jul 31 2006, 10:18PM
Well, everthing can be lethal, even some baby toys.
I know about the dangers of HV-caps.
With non lethal I mean that there are no TW laser tubes or radiactive particles.
HV-Caps and all the other HV-Stuff is easier to buy and to handle than such big lasers or an OMG particle
KV3000
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Tesladownunder, Tue Aug 01 2006, 01:17AM
I did hear about a device with no port but it wasn't Russian and I didn't really understand it.
Peter
Tesladownunder, Tue Aug 01 2006, 01:17AM
Sulaiman wrote ...
In the '70s I worked on an accelerator that produced electrons at reletavistic velocities
acceleration was by 80 MW of microwaves in a vacuum.
The beam exited via a thin titanium window and would travel several feet through the air.
During research for this project we came across information about a USSR accelerator
Incredible!
Helium nucleii were accelerated by microwave in an evacuated tube
The amazing thing was that they used massive vacuum pumps and NO window
The pumps produced near vacuum at the sealed end with the other end open
(a high energy alpha beam would destroy any 'window')
...Anyone heard of it?
I had started to make an e-beam with the target of 200keV through a .001 inch titanium window. Aiming for 6 inch air penetration. Bert Hickmans linear accelerator at 5MeV is used for his discharges into acrylic via a beam in air.In the '70s I worked on an accelerator that produced electrons at reletavistic velocities
acceleration was by 80 MW of microwaves in a vacuum.
The beam exited via a thin titanium window and would travel several feet through the air.
During research for this project we came across information about a USSR accelerator
Incredible!
Helium nucleii were accelerated by microwave in an evacuated tube
The amazing thing was that they used massive vacuum pumps and NO window
The pumps produced near vacuum at the sealed end with the other end open
(a high energy alpha beam would destroy any 'window')
...Anyone heard of it?
I did hear about a device with no port but it wasn't Russian and I didn't really understand it.
Peter
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Sulaiman, Tue Aug 01 2006, 08:47AM
I doubt 200 keV will travel very far through air,
like you say, maybe a few inches.
The accelerator I was working on was 10's of MeV. (up to 50 if I recall correctly)
You could literally call it a 'death-ray'
any tools left in the area became 'hot' waste.
But even more exciting was the target!
Liqud sodium cooled U235.
(in a 20 foot thick concrete walled room)
I'm pretty sure the project is no longer secret which is why I mention it.
(If you don't hear from me again, then I guess it's still secret!)
For up to a couple of MeV there was a tandem Vandergraph
or for home-scale maybe up to 1 MeV? (500kV x2 should be doable)
Maybe even a Marx could be used directly for up to 1 MeV pulses?
The pumping power required for an open-ended vacuum tube
is beyond the reach of any amateur, I think.
Sulaiman, Tue Aug 01 2006, 08:47AM
I doubt 200 keV will travel very far through air,
like you say, maybe a few inches.
The accelerator I was working on was 10's of MeV. (up to 50 if I recall correctly)
You could literally call it a 'death-ray'
any tools left in the area became 'hot' waste.
But even more exciting was the target!
Liqud sodium cooled U235.
(in a 20 foot thick concrete walled room)
I'm pretty sure the project is no longer secret which is why I mention it.
(If you don't hear from me again, then I guess it's still secret!)
For up to a couple of MeV there was a tandem Vandergraph
or for home-scale maybe up to 1 MeV? (500kV x2 should be doable)
Maybe even a Marx could be used directly for up to 1 MeV pulses?
The pumping power required for an open-ended vacuum tube
is beyond the reach of any amateur, I think.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Dr. Drone, Wed Aug 02 2006, 08:02PM
Dr. Drone, Wed Aug 02 2006, 08:02PM
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
dan, Wed Aug 02 2006, 08:42PM
The glass screen would block any high energy particles dead in their tracks. plus I don't think a CRT tube from an ossiloscope would take a few 100kv without something breaking down. Plus why would you do that to a perfectly good ossiloscope when you can just give it to me.
dan, Wed Aug 02 2006, 08:42PM
The glass screen would block any high energy particles dead in their tracks. plus I don't think a CRT tube from an ossiloscope would take a few 100kv without something breaking down. Plus why would you do that to a perfectly good ossiloscope when you can just give it to me.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Simon, Thu Aug 03 2006, 04:16AM
Simon, Thu Aug 03 2006, 04:16AM
Christopher Robin wrote ...
How about taking an old oscilloscope and focus the beam to a point in the middle of the screen and let it run for a few days till the phosphorus burns off (little dot). Then modify the scope power supply to a higher voltage. Now you have a nice little particle beam, Yes, No, Maybe?
That depends on what you mean by "a higher voltage" but I think the kind of answer you have in mind would be, "no".How about taking an old oscilloscope and focus the beam to a point in the middle of the screen and let it run for a few days till the phosphorus burns off (little dot). Then modify the scope power supply to a higher voltage. Now you have a nice little particle beam, Yes, No, Maybe?
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Dr. Drone, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:21AM
Dr. Drone, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:21AM
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Nik, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:56AM
Some older monitors do warn of x-rays if you look at all the lables but I doubt there is any real danger. I have seen monitors that go into ion-death-beam mode if you take away the signal. All 3 electron guns fire straight forward and stay that way untill you give it a signal.
Nik, Thu Aug 03 2006, 05:56AM
Some older monitors do warn of x-rays if you look at all the lables but I doubt there is any real danger. I have seen monitors that go into ion-death-beam mode if you take away the signal. All 3 electron guns fire straight forward and stay that way untill you give it a signal.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Quantum Singularity, Sat Aug 05 2006, 01:47PM
I dont think that is just the phosphorus thats stopping the beams, or else we all be getting cataracts
Quantum Singularity, Sat Aug 05 2006, 01:47PM
I dont think that is just the phosphorus thats stopping the beams, or else we all be getting cataracts
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Sulaiman, Sat Aug 05 2006, 02:22PM
The thick lead-glass front screen of crt's protects us from
the (soft) x-rays produced by typically 25-35 keV electrons hitting the shadow mask.
Or at least that's what I've been lead (ha ha) to believe.
Sulaiman, Sat Aug 05 2006, 02:22PM
The thick lead-glass front screen of crt's protects us from
the (soft) x-rays produced by typically 25-35 keV electrons hitting the shadow mask.
Or at least that's what I've been lead (ha ha) to believe.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sat Aug 05 2006, 03:13PM
Considering topic title 'particle beam weapon' there's nothing with these cathode ray tubes other than being silly. (I guess that was also c. hooper's point)
Particle accelerators needed to get small amount of particles to relativistic speeds are building or district sized requiring insane amounts of power, and their best output can usually be stopped by meters of air.
(so I guess it's pointless to discuss those things as something amateur-practical).
While topic was opened with question about accelerating high-temperature plasma at much lower speeds I think Tesladownunder's plasma ring launcher is probably most sucessful and best things to follow.
Someone could try improving it, getting more speed, more plasma or hotter plasma, etc. but I doubt it could be something more than big (and dangerous) toy.
Marko, Sat Aug 05 2006, 03:13PM
Considering topic title 'particle beam weapon' there's nothing with these cathode ray tubes other than being silly. (I guess that was also c. hooper's point)
Particle accelerators needed to get small amount of particles to relativistic speeds are building or district sized requiring insane amounts of power, and their best output can usually be stopped by meters of air.
(so I guess it's pointless to discuss those things as something amateur-practical).
While topic was opened with question about accelerating high-temperature plasma at much lower speeds I think Tesladownunder's plasma ring launcher is probably most sucessful and best things to follow.
Someone could try improving it, getting more speed, more plasma or hotter plasma, etc. but I doubt it could be something more than big (and dangerous) toy.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
KV3000, Sat Aug 05 2006, 09:52PM
I think it´s no good idea to start experimenting with X-rays. They are really dangerous and hardly to control I think.
The best way to produce X-rays is an old denist tube which can be sometimes found on ebay.
Hmm, its harder than i thought to built a particle gun.
What about accelerating the plasma from an exploding or melting wire or maybe a metal liquid.
I also thougt of a little ring accelerator to reach higher speeds.
Greets KV3000
KV3000, Sat Aug 05 2006, 09:52PM
I think it´s no good idea to start experimenting with X-rays. They are really dangerous and hardly to control I think.
The best way to produce X-rays is an old denist tube which can be sometimes found on ebay.
Hmm, its harder than i thought to built a particle gun.
What about accelerating the plasma from an exploding or melting wire or maybe a metal liquid.
I also thougt of a little ring accelerator to reach higher speeds.
Greets KV3000
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sat Aug 05 2006, 10:05PM
TDU used termal expansion to propel his plasma donut.
Marko, Sat Aug 05 2006, 10:05PM
TDU used termal expansion to propel his plasma donut.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
McFluffin, Sun Aug 06 2006, 06:31AM
What happened to the days when you just threw a brick at something when you wanted to do something to it? I'd maybe go for making a YAG laser rifle if I was going to try to make a practical ray of some sort. From what I've seen of the SSY-1, I would think the larger scale YAGs would be fairly powerful and could still be portable, even if you had to have a backpack or something.
McFluffin, Sun Aug 06 2006, 06:31AM
What happened to the days when you just threw a brick at something when you wanted to do something to it? I'd maybe go for making a YAG laser rifle if I was going to try to make a practical ray of some sort. From what I've seen of the SSY-1, I would think the larger scale YAGs would be fairly powerful and could still be portable, even if you had to have a backpack or something.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
..., Sun Aug 06 2006, 02:14PM
I would stay away from using lasers (especially q-switched yag's) anywhere than a room with blacked out windows and a closed door... I couldn't imagine the lawsuit if someone claimed vision damage from a reflection
..., Sun Aug 06 2006, 02:14PM
I would stay away from using lasers (especially q-switched yag's) anywhere than a room with blacked out windows and a closed door... I couldn't imagine the lawsuit if someone claimed vision damage from a reflection
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sun Aug 06 2006, 02:52PM
Lasers actually have a much bigger chance of being weaponised, adn they already have some of such uses, altough hand-carried weapons like such aren't really practical, since they have tendency to overheat the target instead of physical damage.
And they aren't really particle weapons so it's offtopic.
Marko, Sun Aug 06 2006, 02:52PM
Lasers actually have a much bigger chance of being weaponised, adn they already have some of such uses, altough hand-carried weapons like such aren't really practical, since they have tendency to overheat the target instead of physical damage.
And they aren't really particle weapons so it's offtopic.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Carbon_Rod, Thu Aug 10 2006, 10:05PM
Yes there was research in this area. IIRC microwave based non-lethal crowd control is now available.
There have been other more exotic things developed over the years too. Bringing up questionable science usually causes some controversy and imminent thread locking,
Carbon_Rod, Thu Aug 10 2006, 10:05PM
Yes there was research in this area. IIRC microwave based non-lethal crowd control is now available.
There have been other more exotic things developed over the years too. Bringing up questionable science usually causes some controversy and imminent thread locking,
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Thu Aug 10 2006, 11:12PM
Generally IR lasers and higher frequency microwaves were best candidates for such 'pain-weapon' but there are still some problems like large possibility of damaging eyes or etc., and may not be too effective sometimes.
I don't think there was some pseudoscience discussion around here.
Marko, Thu Aug 10 2006, 11:12PM
Yes there was research in this area. IIRC microwave based non-lethal crowd control is now available.
Generally IR lasers and higher frequency microwaves were best candidates for such 'pain-weapon' but there are still some problems like large possibility of damaging eyes or etc., and may not be too effective sometimes.
I don't think there was some pseudoscience discussion around here.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Carbon_Rod, Fri Aug 11 2006, 10:49PM
Short-range nuclear tactical weaponry was halted under the classic US & Russian led international agreements. You will not likely find publicly available information regarding the halted programs.
Some time ago the Chinese had developed a now banned handheld weapon designed to blind hostiles with laser technology. Ooops! I stand corrected – not banned.
“LE Systems, under the sponsorship of DARPA, developed a dazzler based on a DPSS laser, with green light output at 532 nm, essentially a souped-up version of the green laser pointers. The advantage of 532 nm wavelength lies in its ability to interact with human eye in both daylight and reduced light conditions. description; image.
SaberShot developed essentially the same system and delivers it in form factors ranging from a pen type with effective range of 200 meters, through a flashlight type effective at 500 meters, to rifle-size units effective up to 2 kilometers. description; image.
The Saber 203 dazzler or "Saber 203 Grenade Shell Laser Intruder Countermeasure System", uses a 28 mW red laser diode, mounted in a hard plastic capsule in the shape of a standard 40 mm grenade, suitable to being loaded into a M203 grenade launcher. It has an effective range of 300 meters. It is controlled via a box snapped under the launcher, and in emergency it can be quickly ejected and replaced with a grenade. It is similar to the LANL-developed optical munition, Project Perseus. Saber 203 dazzlers were used in Somalia in 1995 during the Operation United Shield. According to the Air Force, the system is also usable for law enforcement purposes.
This laser dazzler is mounted on the Chinese Type 98 Main battle tank. It is coupled with a laser radiation detector, and automatically aims for the enemy's illuminating laser designator, attempting to overwhelm its optical systems or blind the operator. See this link.
The ZM-87 Portable Laser Disturber is a Chinese electro-optic countermeasure laser device. It can blind enemy troops at up to 2 to 3 km range and temporarily blind them at up to 10 km range. See ZM-87 or this link for more information.
The Outfit DEC or Laser Dazzle Sight (LDS) is a British ship-based laser, used since the 1980s.
The PHaSR or Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response rifle was developed by the U.S. Department of Defense:
The veiling-glare laser works on ultraviolet and is designed to dazzle by causing fluorescence in the lens of the eye.â€
Carbon_Rod, Fri Aug 11 2006, 10:49PM
Short-range nuclear tactical weaponry was halted under the classic US & Russian led international agreements. You will not likely find publicly available information regarding the halted programs.
Some time ago the Chinese had developed a now banned handheld weapon designed to blind hostiles with laser technology. Ooops! I stand corrected – not banned.
“LE Systems, under the sponsorship of DARPA, developed a dazzler based on a DPSS laser, with green light output at 532 nm, essentially a souped-up version of the green laser pointers. The advantage of 532 nm wavelength lies in its ability to interact with human eye in both daylight and reduced light conditions. description; image.
SaberShot developed essentially the same system and delivers it in form factors ranging from a pen type with effective range of 200 meters, through a flashlight type effective at 500 meters, to rifle-size units effective up to 2 kilometers. description; image.
The Saber 203 dazzler or "Saber 203 Grenade Shell Laser Intruder Countermeasure System", uses a 28 mW red laser diode, mounted in a hard plastic capsule in the shape of a standard 40 mm grenade, suitable to being loaded into a M203 grenade launcher. It has an effective range of 300 meters. It is controlled via a box snapped under the launcher, and in emergency it can be quickly ejected and replaced with a grenade. It is similar to the LANL-developed optical munition, Project Perseus. Saber 203 dazzlers were used in Somalia in 1995 during the Operation United Shield. According to the Air Force, the system is also usable for law enforcement purposes.
This laser dazzler is mounted on the Chinese Type 98 Main battle tank. It is coupled with a laser radiation detector, and automatically aims for the enemy's illuminating laser designator, attempting to overwhelm its optical systems or blind the operator. See this link.
The ZM-87 Portable Laser Disturber is a Chinese electro-optic countermeasure laser device. It can blind enemy troops at up to 2 to 3 km range and temporarily blind them at up to 10 km range. See ZM-87 or this link for more information.
The Outfit DEC or Laser Dazzle Sight (LDS) is a British ship-based laser, used since the 1980s.
The PHaSR or Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response rifle was developed by the U.S. Department of Defense:
The veiling-glare laser works on ultraviolet and is designed to dazzle by causing fluorescence in the lens of the eye.â€
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Marko, Sat Aug 12 2006, 10:06AM
Nothing new about dazzlers. A bunch of developers is listed, and were even used in iraq.
Probably anyone who gets a nice pulse green nd:yag can make himself a variant of sort.
I don't think these are actually most efficient weapons, and thread has gone away from the topic.
Marko, Sat Aug 12 2006, 10:06AM
Nothing new about dazzlers. A bunch of developers is listed, and were even used in iraq.
Probably anyone who gets a nice pulse green nd:yag can make himself a variant of sort.
I don't think these are actually most efficient weapons, and thread has gone away from the topic.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Simon, Mon Aug 14 2006, 12:50AM
Yes, this thread is getting very tired.
Discussion of most of the stuff here should probably be on a thread in the chatting board for alternative and non-lethal weaponry.
Let's keep this thread just for discussions of getting particles through air, although I believe it's established that it isn't practical.
Simon, Mon Aug 14 2006, 12:50AM
Yes, this thread is getting very tired.
Discussion of most of the stuff here should probably be on a thread in the chatting board for alternative and non-lethal weaponry.
Let's keep this thread just for discussions of getting particles through air, although I believe it's established that it isn't practical.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Effilcdar, Sun Apr 22 2007, 09:04AM
Two questions:
1 Do any of you know where someone explains the flaws with tesla's "death ray" beyond the typical "but thats crazy"
2 Could you use a pulse discharge such as we use for coilguns to breifly give enormous power to a laser. Star wars blaster style.
Effilcdar, Sun Apr 22 2007, 09:04AM
Two questions:
1 Do any of you know where someone explains the flaws with tesla's "death ray" beyond the typical "but thats crazy"
2 Could you use a pulse discharge such as we use for coilguns to breifly give enormous power to a laser. Star wars blaster style.
Re: Particle(beam) weapon
Steve Conner, Sun Apr 22 2007, 10:30AM
1: It would have probably worked, but when it comes to shooting down planes, anti-aircraft guns and guided missiles ended up more cost-effective. The Department of Defense's new Tactical High Energy Laser is more than a little reminiscent of Tesla's death ray, in intent if not in design.
2: That's how pulsed lasers work already, STFW.
Steve Conner, Sun Apr 22 2007, 10:30AM
1: It would have probably worked, but when it comes to shooting down planes, anti-aircraft guns and guided missiles ended up more cost-effective. The Department of Defense's new Tactical High Energy Laser is more than a little reminiscent of Tesla's death ray, in intent if not in design.
2: That's how pulsed lasers work already, STFW.
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