Interesting question . . .
HV Enthusiast, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:27PMIf the sun were to instananeously disappear, how long would it take for the Earth to lose its orbit??
Re: Interesting question . . .
Steve Conner, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:31PM
Why, are you guys at Lockheed Martin thinking of blowing it up?
Steve Conner, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:31PM
Why, are you guys at Lockheed Martin thinking of blowing it up?
Re: Interesting question . . .
Alex, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:38PM
The earth would move on a path tangential to it's previous path as soon as the sun disappeared (from our point of view). In reality, however, the sun would have disappeared some time ago, it just takes time for the effects of it's light/gravity (or lack thereof) to reach us.
There is probably some math to be done there, but the problem isn't that interesting.
Alex, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:38PM
The earth would move on a path tangential to it's previous path as soon as the sun disappeared (from our point of view). In reality, however, the sun would have disappeared some time ago, it just takes time for the effects of it's light/gravity (or lack thereof) to reach us.
There is probably some math to be done there, but the problem isn't that interesting.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Marko, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:39PM
Sayng you teleport the sun somehow away and it's gravitational effect dissapears, it's logical to think that earth would continue route on straight line tangential to previous orbit.
ps. it would probably take some 8 minutes before earth actually 'feels' the gravitional wave (dissaperance of the sun's field) .
Marko, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:39PM
Sayng you teleport the sun somehow away and it's gravitational effect dissapears, it's logical to think that earth would continue route on straight line tangential to previous orbit.
ps. it would probably take some 8 minutes before earth actually 'feels' the gravitional wave (dissaperance of the sun's field) .
Re: Interesting question . . .
Madgyver, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:39PM
I guess instananeously like the mysterious disappearance of the sun? Without gravitational force there is no Orbit but linear movement and Interaction with the other Planets.
Madgyver, Fri Jul 28 2006, 02:39PM
I guess instananeously like the mysterious disappearance of the sun? Without gravitational force there is no Orbit but linear movement and Interaction with the other Planets.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Alex, Fri Jul 28 2006, 03:02PM
Hmm, after googling a bit, it seems that it may be a bit more complicated than that. The sun's gravity well wouldn't simply disappear, it would reverberate as it returned to a normal state.
Assuming the 'rubber mat' theory (with gravity well dimples and whatnot, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...) is true, and it most likely isn't, what happens when a gravity well reverberates and turns into a gravity lump? Anti-gravity? Note that considering this idea is crimethink, and therefore off limits to proles and party members until it is corrected by the Minitrue historical division.
Alex, Fri Jul 28 2006, 03:02PM
Hmm, after googling a bit, it seems that it may be a bit more complicated than that. The sun's gravity well wouldn't simply disappear, it would reverberate as it returned to a normal state.
Assuming the 'rubber mat' theory (with gravity well dimples and whatnot, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...) is true, and it most likely isn't, what happens when a gravity well reverberates and turns into a gravity lump? Anti-gravity? Note that considering this idea is crimethink, and therefore off limits to proles and party members until it is corrected by the Minitrue historical division.
Re: Interesting question . . .
HV Enthusiast, Fri Jul 28 2006, 03:03PM
Yes, but would it really be instantaneous? Would the effects of gravity occur faster than the speed of light?
Sorry, Steve. Thats not my department, so I wouldn't really know. Right now i'm designing power supplies for the F-22 Raptor (lots of firepower), and working on the Ballistic Missile Defense program (lots of firepower against even more firepower), and provided Lockheed wins the contract for the new CEV space shuttle this coming month, I'll likely be relocating to Colorado to design power systems for the new space shuttle (maximum firepower) Plus, i'm sure even if Lockheed was planning on blowing up the Sun, i wouldn't have sufficient security clearance for that program.
HV Enthusiast, Fri Jul 28 2006, 03:03PM
Yes, but would it really be instantaneous? Would the effects of gravity occur faster than the speed of light?
Steve Conner wrote ...
Why, are you guys at Lockheed Martin thinking of blowing it up?
Why, are you guys at Lockheed Martin thinking of blowing it up?
Sorry, Steve. Thats not my department, so I wouldn't really know. Right now i'm designing power supplies for the F-22 Raptor (lots of firepower), and working on the Ballistic Missile Defense program (lots of firepower against even more firepower), and provided Lockheed wins the contract for the new CEV space shuttle this coming month, I'll likely be relocating to Colorado to design power systems for the new space shuttle (maximum firepower) Plus, i'm sure even if Lockheed was planning on blowing up the Sun, i wouldn't have sufficient security clearance for that program.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Marko, Fri Jul 28 2006, 03:28PM
I don't know if anything ''strange'' would actually happen, and only assumption we make is dissaperance of the sun (with logical dissaperance of it's gravitational field with it).
Definitely not, the gravitational wave would need some 8 minutes to reach, travelling by speed of light.
Marko, Fri Jul 28 2006, 03:28PM
I don't know if anything ''strange'' would actually happen, and only assumption we make is dissaperance of the sun (with logical dissaperance of it's gravitational field with it).
Yes, but would it really be instantaneous? Would the effects of gravity occur faster than the speed of light?
Definitely not, the gravitational wave would need some 8 minutes to reach, travelling by speed of light.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Simon Barsinister, Fri Jul 28 2006, 09:52PM
welcome to your new orbit around Jupiter
Simon Barsinister, Fri Jul 28 2006, 09:52PM
welcome to your new orbit around Jupiter
Re: Interesting question . . .
Alex, Fri Jul 28 2006, 10:50PM
Haha Simon. We just need someone to light it on fire now...
Alex, Fri Jul 28 2006, 10:50PM
Haha Simon. We just need someone to light it on fire now...
EastVoltResearc wrote ...
but would it really be instantaneous?
I didn't say that.but would it really be instantaneous?
Alex wrote ...
...it just takes time for the effects of it's light/gravity (or lack thereof) to reach us.
...it just takes time for the effects of it's light/gravity (or lack thereof) to reach us.
Re: Interesting question . . .
ragnar, Fri Jul 28 2006, 11:51PM
If the sun disappeared, then the rest of the solar system would orbit around me. ^^
I mean... I am the centre of the universe 'n all.
ragnar, Fri Jul 28 2006, 11:51PM
If the sun disappeared, then the rest of the solar system would orbit around me. ^^
I mean... I am the centre of the universe 'n all.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Bjørn, Sat Jul 29 2006, 08:10AM
No one has measured the speed of gravity and the indirect evidence that exists depends on general relativity being correct to give a valid answer. There are other theories where the speed of gravity is infinite or a lot higher than the speed of light.
Until someone finds ut an extremely clever way to measure it, it seems fairly safe to assume gravity propagates at the speed of light.
The question is problematic because the sun can't suddenly disappear. If we assume it does anyway we may think up a result that is invalid because the conditions are invalid.
Bjørn, Sat Jul 29 2006, 08:10AM
No one has measured the speed of gravity and the indirect evidence that exists depends on general relativity being correct to give a valid answer. There are other theories where the speed of gravity is infinite or a lot higher than the speed of light.
Until someone finds ut an extremely clever way to measure it, it seems fairly safe to assume gravity propagates at the speed of light.
The question is problematic because the sun can't suddenly disappear. If we assume it does anyway we may think up a result that is invalid because the conditions are invalid.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Dr. Shark, Sat Jul 29 2006, 09:08AM
I think this is a very interesting question with the answer far from being obvious or meaningless. For a start have a look at
(Well, is there any Physics question Beaz is not a good start for?), and then there are a few papers in respected journals speculating about the "Speed of Gravity".
Very good question, Dan!
Dr. Shark, Sat Jul 29 2006, 09:08AM
I think this is a very interesting question with the answer far from being obvious or meaningless. For a start have a look at
(Well, is there any Physics question Beaz is not a good start for?), and then there are a few papers in respected journals speculating about the "Speed of Gravity". Very good question, Dan!
Re: Interesting question . . .
Desmogod, Sat Jul 29 2006, 02:46PM
8 minutes before our orbit degraded and we started drifting towards Jupiter.
Edit: why is the error only there _after_ we press reply?
Desmogod, Sat Jul 29 2006, 02:46PM
8 minutes before our orbit degraded and we started drifting towards Jupiter.
Edit: why is the error only there _after_ we press reply?
Re: Interesting question . . .
Penguin7471, Sun Jul 30 2006, 04:48AM
This was in NewScientist magazine and someone said that the earth would just keep orbiting due to some angular velocity or something.
I dont get it though.
Penguin7471, Sun Jul 30 2006, 04:48AM
This was in NewScientist magazine and someone said that the earth would just keep orbiting due to some angular velocity or something.
I dont get it though.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Quantum Singularity, Sun Jul 30 2006, 08:56AM
That is my answer exactly ^
I always wondered about the 'speed' of gravity myself although I never researched it seriously. Is the whole concept of what gravity is still just a concept? For example has there ever been proof that a 'graviton' particle exists... or is it energy?
It is relatively impossible to make any mass instantly dissapear (unless you happen to have a lot of antimatter handy). I assume the point your trying to make/ask is about the speed in which the effect of gravity propagates.
Quantum Singularity, Sun Jul 30 2006, 08:56AM
Bjørn Bæverfjord wrote ...
No one has measured the speed of gravity and the indirect evidence that exists depends on general relativity being correct to give a valid answer. There are other theories where the speed of gravity is infinite or a lot higher than the speed of light.
Until someone finds ut an extremely clever way to measure it, it seems fairly safe to assume gravity propagates at the speed of light.
The question is problematic because the sun can't suddenly disappear. If we assume it does anyway we may think up a result that is invalid because the conditions are invalid.
No one has measured the speed of gravity and the indirect evidence that exists depends on general relativity being correct to give a valid answer. There are other theories where the speed of gravity is infinite or a lot higher than the speed of light.
Until someone finds ut an extremely clever way to measure it, it seems fairly safe to assume gravity propagates at the speed of light.
The question is problematic because the sun can't suddenly disappear. If we assume it does anyway we may think up a result that is invalid because the conditions are invalid.
That is my answer exactly ^
I always wondered about the 'speed' of gravity myself although I never researched it seriously. Is the whole concept of what gravity is still just a concept? For example has there ever been proof that a 'graviton' particle exists... or is it energy?
It is relatively impossible to make any mass instantly dissapear (unless you happen to have a lot of antimatter handy). I assume the point your trying to make/ask is about the speed in which the effect of gravity propagates.
Re: Interesting question . . .
Steve Conner, Sun Jul 30 2006, 05:51PM
Haha, good point Bjoern, the sun is already self-destructing as fast as the laws of physics allow How do you blow up something that's a nuclear fireball to start with?
Steve Conner, Sun Jul 30 2006, 05:51PM
Haha, good point Bjoern, the sun is already self-destructing as fast as the laws of physics allow
How do you blow up something that's a nuclear fireball to start with?Print this page