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Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Propeller Physics and VABs Program.

Move Thread LAN_403
Patrick
Fri Dec 12 2014, 12:45AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Ash Small wrote ...
(I hate maths as much as you do, Patrick shades
Yes, fluid flow is nothing more than cowardly trickery i say!


at 30" diameter and 3000rpm:
the tip is at: 143 m/s @ (15 inches)
the mid-span is: 60 m/s (@ 7.5 inches)
near hub is: 16 m/s (@ 2 inches)

Mach at tip then equals 143 / 340 m/s = 0.42M, so with reduced pressure hopefully no more than 0.6M

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Ash Small
Fri Dec 12 2014, 12:52AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Patrick wrote ...

Ash Small wrote ...
(I hate maths as much as you do, Patrick shades
Yes, fluid flow is nothing more than cowardly trickery i say!

Sometimes you just need to grab the maths demon firmly with both hands, and administer a swift kick to the groin area shades
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Patrick
Fri Dec 12 2014, 01:56AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
A kick to the huevos has now been issued.


Link2 math with reguards to air density.

Link2 trying to figure this out.

Link2

Link2 im trying to figure out how he figures out the AOA of each crossetion. I dont know what a "slashed tip" is either.

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Ash Small
Fri Dec 12 2014, 02:25AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
'Parabolics' isn't just of relevance in the submarine thread, it's relevant here as well wink

I'll look at the links in the morning
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Patrick
Fri Dec 12 2014, 03:19AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
i continue with the math....


1418362315 2431 FT1630 Table

Z sub q is the circumferential velocity as the radius goes out.

im trying to figure out inhaled mass. And if under camber can be used.



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Andy
Fri Dec 12 2014, 09:15PM
Andy Registered Member #4266 Joined: Fri Dec 16 2011, 03:15AM
Location:
Posts: 874
And if under camber can be used.
It can if you are design the blades as aerofoil rather than drag, and a tip to airspeed ratio of 3:1 is normal optimum for aerofoil, but the angle is realeted to drag at a certain airspeed, I think around still, with drag at 10% eff and aerofoil at 39-40% eff, you can replace the airspeed to meter/second of prop and times 3 to get the TSR, then decrease the angle of attack until the thing comes out of stall or a massive jump in thrust


Link2 the pictures at the top, the topleft one, is the blade shape I would make the length based on rpm, and the angle is Link2

Side not, the pancake motor is supposeable more eff not from the electrical side, but maybe from the angle that the magntic coils are further from the centre of the shaft, make the speed to torgue graphs more straight rather than ecillpe, or adjust more to the environment.
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Ash Small
Fri Dec 12 2014, 11:46PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Patrick wrote ...

i continue with the math....


1418362315 2431 FT1630 Table

Z sub q is the circumferential velocity as the radius goes out.

im trying to figure out inhaled mass. And if under camber can be used.

I think we will end up with a NACA profile, with camber.

I'm just thinking through the 'tip speed', 'centripetal/centrifugal' thing. Working on 700feet/second tip velocity.

Overall mass of props has to be as low as possible, but strong enopugh to withstand centripetal/centrifugal forces.

I think we need to decide on CSA of prop before deciding on profile. Strength required to overcome centripetal/centrifugal forces with tip speed of 700 feet per second gives us a starting point.

Sorry about the slow response, feel like I've got pnumonia today.
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Patrick
Sat Dec 13 2014, 02:46AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
What's CSA ?
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Ash Small
Sat Dec 13 2014, 03:42AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Patrick wrote ...

What's CSA ?

Cross-Sectional Area. Surely we want to know this before we decide what shape it's going to be? wink
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Ash Small
Sat Dec 13 2014, 02:51PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I've just calculated that 700 feet per second is 213.36m/s.

This equates to 5235RPM for a 30" prop.

I'll work out disc loading later.
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