Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 27
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
One birthday today, congrats!
a.gutzeit (63)


Next birthdays
05/07 a.gutzeit (63)
05/08 wpk5008 (34)
05/09 Alfons (36)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

Induction heater as an induction launcher (now with control circuit discussion!)

 1 2 3 4
Move Thread LAN_403
GeordieBoy
Wed Jun 18 2008, 06:15PM
GeordieBoy Registered Member #1232 Joined: Wed Jan 16 2008, 10:53PM
Location: Doon tha Toon!
Posts: 881
Okay. The top trace at least proves that you can introduce plenty of deadtime into the drive waveforms. The flat tops and bottoms of the inverter output are where the MOSFETs are conducting, and the curved sections in between are where the free-wheeling load current is charging and discharging the MOSFETs output capacitance during the deadtime.

The deadtime in this picture seems to be a rather large percentage of the total switching period, and is probably a little excessive. You only need sufficent to prevent conduction overlap and horrendous ringing on the inverter output voltage. (Notice how the voltage waveform now has no overshoot or ringing.) Do you have snubber capacitors across the MOSFETs??? The reason I ask is that I would have expected the voltage to slew more quickly from rail to rail. If not, then I would guess the tests were done at reduced DC supply voltage or with a very light load current??? At full supply voltage and with plenty of amps flowing the voltage will slew more quickly between rails and you don't need so much deadtime.

As for the 2nd scope trace. I don't have a clue what is happening there! It looks like the conduction time of the MOSFETs is very small again compared with the total period and the deadtime is too large a % of the period.

As for the 3rd scope trace, make sure you have a 10uF tantalum cap and 100nF ceramic capacitor across each gate drive IC right at the pins of the chip. Also make sure that you keep the control electronics well away from the power bits that are carrying high current, and in particular away from the work-coil/capacitor tank circuit. That goes for scope leads too!

I wouldn't worry at all about tiny little wiggles on signal lines at the switching instants, because these can appear just because of the fast gate drive signals. It is big wiggles, overshoot and ringing on the power side you need to erradicate to keep the power semi's happy. It's worth noting that this control scheme you're using is very robust - It takes a whole lot of noise to knock it out of frequency lock. The neat thing about it is that during normal operation the two inputs to the phase comparator from the tank circuit and the inverter output are 90 degrees out of phase. So any noise that appears on one signal resulting from a transition in the other signal does not adversely affect the operation!

Hope this helps,

-Richie,
Back to top
uzzors2k
Wed Jun 18 2008, 06:25PM
uzzors2k Registered Member #95 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:57PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 1308
Yeah, the dead time was a bit excessive and nothing I plan to keep. I just wanted to eliminate the shoot-through suspicion. As you guessed I'm running about 1/10th of full voltage and current. (Just one 1.8µF decoupling cap across the supply, no individual snubbing)

But I guess the ripple is nothing to worry about then. The voltage regulation did work so I'll just keep moving forward as planned. (After some vacation! See you guys in a few weeks)
Back to top
uzzors2k
Mon Jul 07 2008, 04:27AM
uzzors2k Registered Member #95 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:57PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 1308
Why aren't air cored inductors used instead of ferrite cored inductors for the matching inductor? You wouldn't have to worry about saturation, or core heating. More wire is required for a given inductance increasing the resistive losses, but that's the only drawback I can see. What am I missing?
Back to top
Experimentonomen
Mon Jul 07 2008, 08:42AM
Experimentonomen Registered Member #941 Joined: Sun Aug 05 2007, 10:09AM
Location: in a swedish junk pile
Posts: 497
Because a air core matching inductor cannot be put inside the chassi of the ih, cuz it radiated fields everywhere and can itself induction heat things as well, also it´ll be much larger than a cored one.
Back to top
GeordieBoy
Mon Jul 07 2008, 12:31PM
GeordieBoy Registered Member #1232 Joined: Wed Jan 16 2008, 10:53PM
Location: Doon tha Toon!
Posts: 881
That's basically it. A properly optimised design with gapped ferrite and litz wire will have the lowest total losses (when Cu and core losses are added together) and be more compact than an air cored coil. The leakage field of the gapped ferrite core set will also be more localised to the non-magnetic gap than a large air core inductor which will induce currents into everything around.

-Richie,
Back to top
 1 2 3 4

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.