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The "Fat Coil" QCW Tesla Coil

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Gregory
Mon Dec 08 2014, 12:12AM
Gregory Registered Member #2922 Joined: Sun Jun 13 2010, 12:08AM
Location:
Posts: 226
A one-shot timer is started upon each zero-current-detection of the feedback signal (that is, 2 events per full cycle). The one-shot is set to time out "just before" the next expected zero crossing. When the one-shot times out, the output to the gate driver flips state (as if the feedback signal told it to). If you measured the previous half-cycle's period "Thp", you can predict the next one as Tnext_switch = Thp - Tlead.

This is the way I first thought to do but I thought it would be very instable. I will give it a chance
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Goodchild
Mon Dec 08 2014, 03:19PM
Goodchild Registered Member #2292 Joined: Fri Aug 14 2009, 05:33PM
Location: The Wild West AKA Arizona
Posts: 795
Steve Ward wrote ...

I made a digital PLL.

There are a few key points about it:

1) the user has to define a starting frequency "Fstart". The driver switches to feedback/pll operation after "N" cycles (set in 0.5 cycle increments), typically i use 0.5-1 cycles for a "transient" type DR, and 4-8 cycles for SSTC/QCW where you need to have a well defined starting frequency/mode). However, it works acceptably with pretty big errors... so its not overly burdening.

2) The user must define the desired phase-lead time "Tlead", which is referenced to the output signals from the PSoC (Conner already explained this perfectly). This lead time is defined as the whole delay time of the system (that includes the feedback CT delay, the processors delay, and IGBT delay).

So how's it work?

First, start driving at "Fstart", during this time, measure the period between zero crossings in the current feedback signal. After "N" cycles at "Fstart", PLL operation can begin. The PLL works as follows:

A one-shot timer is started upon each zero-current-detection of the feedback signal (that is, 2 events per full cycle). The one-shot is set to time out "just before" the next expected zero crossing. When the one-shot times out, the output to the gate driver flips state (as if the feedback signal told it to). If you measured the previous half-cycle's period "Thp", you can predict the next one as Tnext_switch = Thp - Tlead.

If that makes sense, then you understand enough to build your own digital PLL as i did. However... there was a problem with stability if the half-cycle periods were inconsistent, so i added a digital filter that averages the previous 4 half-cycle periods and uses that result for the predictive one-shot timer (knocking it down to 2 half-cycles ought to work too, just havent tried it yet). Conner would probably point out here that there is some dynamic performance loss from this, but thanks to the fact that the one-shot is reset with the feedback input, you can never get too far out of phase with the desired switching command even if the system frequency is changing rather quickly. Oh yeah, and just in case the prediction is too late, the zero-cross detect will command a gate drive transition, making the driver no worse than my old universal driver without phase lead.

Ive used this same driver on a wide variety of tesla coils and its performance is on par with the inductor prediktor and about 1000 times better than the 4046 PLL crap i used to play with. However, getting the whole scheme to work reliably was a considerable challenge and took months of debugging/tweaking to get it to a robust state. Having an FPGA with essentially limitless hardware would have made the task easier, most of my time was spent coaxing the design to fit within my hardware budget on the PSoC. Also, 64MHz clock leaves a bit to be desired at higher TC frequencies.


Interesting implementation of an ADPLL Steve. I have made a couple of these in FPGA a while ago and I commend you on doing it in something with so few macro cells. From my understanding most ADPLLs need the loop filter in order to work properly anyway, otherwise they suffer from the same instability you descried above.

It's a careful balance getting the loop filter correct, to aggressive and the system acts sluggish, not aggressive enough leads to instability/jitter.
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Intra
Tue Jun 09 2015, 01:37PM
Intra Registered Member #2694 Joined: Mon Feb 22 2010, 11:52PM
Location: Russia, Volgograd (Stalingrad).
Posts: 97
Steve Ward wrote ...

MMC: 11 strings of 20 series 27nF 1600VDC MMKP type, total 14.85nF at 13kVAC (RMS).

Hi Steve, could 942C20P15K-F caps be replacement of MMKP for MMC?
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loneoceans
Tue Jun 09 2015, 05:28PM
loneoceans Registered Member #4098 Joined: Fri Sept 16 2011, 09:26PM
Location:
Posts: 236
Intra wrote ...

Steve Ward wrote ...

MMC: 11 strings of 20 series 27nF 1600VDC MMKP type, total 14.85nF at 13kVAC (RMS).

Hi Steve, could 942C20P15K-F caps be replacement of MMKP for MMC?

The 942 CDE caps have excellent RMS capability and work great. However a similar capacitor bank would require about 90 of those caps (30 x 3) which will be pretty expensive though...
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Intra
Wed Jun 10 2015, 07:25AM
Intra Registered Member #2694 Joined: Mon Feb 22 2010, 11:52PM
Location: Russia, Volgograd (Stalingrad).
Posts: 97
loneoceans wrote ...

Intra wrote ...

Steve Ward wrote ...

MMC: 11 strings of 20 series 27nF 1600VDC MMKP type, total 14.85nF at 13kVAC (RMS).

Hi Steve, could 942C20P15K-F caps be replacement of MMKP for MMC?

The 942 CDE caps have excellent RMS capability and work great. However a similar capacitor bank would require about 90 of those caps (30 x 3) which will be pretty expensive though...

Thank you Gao!
According to datasheet Irms of 942C20P15K-F is 13.5A and AC is 500V.
Did I made right calculations about if 3pcs 942C20P15K-F in parallel give 20.25kVAC RMS?

The reason why I ask, 104pcs of 942C20P15K-F I already have. shades
F
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Mads Barnkob
Wed Jun 10 2015, 09:23AM
Mads Barnkob Registered Member #1403 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 06:05PM
Location: Denmark, Odense C
Posts: 1968
Intra wrote ...

loneoceans wrote ...

Intra wrote ...

Steve Ward wrote ...

MMC: 11 strings of 20 series 27nF 1600VDC MMKP type, total 14.85nF at 13kVAC (RMS).

Hi Steve, could 942C20P15K-F caps be replacement of MMKP for MMC?

The 942 CDE caps have excellent RMS capability and work great. However a similar capacitor bank would require about 90 of those caps (30 x 3) which will be pretty expensive though...

Thank you Gao!
According to datasheet Irms of 942C20P15K-F is 13.5A and AC is 500V.
Did I made right calculations about if 3pcs 942C20P15K-F in parallel give 20.25kVAC RMS?

The reason why I ask, 104pcs of 942C20P15K-F I already have. shades

You could use the MMC calculator here Link2 to give some quick estimates. 500V is however a pretty conservative rating for these capacitors. But on the other hand they are being punished more in a QCW than in a DRSSTC. Just change the voltage rating in the calculator and the rest of its specifications is inthere.

You simply just need that many to get down in capacitance, these are not suitable to the job, too expensive an option in my opinion.
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Intra
Wed Jun 10 2015, 10:12AM
Intra Registered Member #2694 Joined: Mon Feb 22 2010, 11:52PM
Location: Russia, Volgograd (Stalingrad).
Posts: 97
Mads Barnkob wrote ...

Intra wrote ...

loneoceans wrote ...

Intra wrote ...

Steve Ward wrote ...

MMC: 11 strings of 20 series 27nF 1600VDC MMKP type, total 14.85nF at 13kVAC (RMS).

Hi Steve, could 942C20P15K-F caps be replacement of MMKP for MMC?

The 942 CDE caps have excellent RMS capability and work great. However a similar capacitor bank would require about 90 of those caps (30 x 3) which will be pretty expensive though...

Thank you Gao!
According to datasheet Irms of 942C20P15K-F is 13.5A and AC is 500V.
Did I made right calculations about if 3pcs 942C20P15K-F in parallel give 20.25kVAC RMS?

The reason why I ask, 104pcs of 942C20P15K-F I already have. shades

You could use the MMC calculator here Link2 to give some quick estimates. 500V is however a pretty conservative rating for these capacitors. But on the other hand they are being punished more in a QCW than in a DRSSTC. Just change the voltage rating in the calculator and the rest of its specifications is inthere.

You simply just need that many to get down in capacitance, these are not suitable to the job, too expensive an option in my opinion.
Nice calculator.
I made some research about which capacitors will be suitable to the job (for a couple of QCW).
240pcs of MMKP BFC238350273 27nF 1600V will cost $441 (mouser) and 90pcs of 942C20P15K-F will cost $518 (mouser).
But 104pcs of 942C20P15K-F I already have (I didn't bought them, it was a gift), and for MMCs which contains 90pcs of 942C20P15K-F I need only 2*90-104=76pcs more. And 76pcs of 942C20P15K-F will cost $437 only.
Which caps in your opinion will not so expensive for this job? (not in staccato mode)
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Mads Barnkob
Thu Jun 11 2015, 09:22AM
Mads Barnkob Registered Member #1403 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 06:05PM
Location: Denmark, Odense C
Posts: 1968
10 strings of 30 in series of these: Link2

Gives you 15,6nF at 13,2kVAC, uses 300 capacitors that would cost you a total of 36 Euro, however the RMS current handling is lower than the 942C. But it might be total overkill with the 942Cs.

The downside is also you have to do much more soldering with the cheap method :)
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Intra
Thu Jun 11 2015, 01:00PM
Intra Registered Member #2694 Joined: Mon Feb 22 2010, 11:52PM
Location: Russia, Volgograd (Stalingrad).
Posts: 97
Mads Barnkob wrote ...

10 strings of 30 in series of these: Link2

Gives you 15,6nF at 13,2kVAC, uses 300 capacitors that would cost you a total of 36 Euro, however the RMS current handling is lower than the 942C. But it might be total overkill with the 942Cs.

The downside is also you have to do much more soldering with the cheap method :)
*0*

Thank you very much!
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Intra
Thu Jun 11 2015, 03:23PM
Intra Registered Member #2694 Joined: Mon Feb 22 2010, 11:52PM
Location: Russia, Volgograd (Stalingrad).
Posts: 97
Steve Ward wrote ...

Intra, almost got it, but you didnt get the extra IGBT/diode boost circuit correct. It follows a standard boost converter scheme, i think you can fix your schematic wink.
Look like according to wiki boost circuit schematic, it should be as on this pic, but if so, then I don't understand why you use that white wire.

Does this schematic right?
00wkogZ3wao
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