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$5000 CONTEST! and follow up investment! ***CANCELLED***

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LAN_403

...

Wed Feb 14 2007, 04:14AM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

Well, I would say that I have my doubts that I (or anyone else for that matter) will 'win' this thing, I am going to point out the biggest loophole I see... You don't say how much power it has to produce during that 95% of the time.. So I could use a put a solar cell on it that will produce power 24/7 (either from the sun, moon, or the stars if you really get desperate, but thet 10^-18w of power is still power), and then have something that produces power for a short period of time.

Also, you don't say anything about not using plants... They grow over the entire surface of the planet, are renewable, etc. You said that water can be consumed, so lets stick a farm out there and composte the plants, and then conver the methane into H2 (or just burn them and then use that energy to make H2).

Bjørn

Wed Feb 14 2007, 05:17AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

It is a bit of a loophole but not a large one. It has to be a single source that is able to produce 66-300 joules of energy, every 24 hours in any conditions.

That means at -80 deg C, at +55 deg C, in one millionth of starlight, in full sunlight, in snow, in rain and in every other normal condition that exists during the year at some place on the earth or at sea.

Solar cells are out since there are not enough of them around to collect 100 joules a day from starlight through thick cloud cover in a blizzard. The farm might work but how do convincingly demonstrate that you can get it to work for 6 months in total darkness at -50 deg C? Then you have to show that it does not use "stored" energy.

To make it short there are some loopholes but they don't line up very well. Most methods that clearly are in line with the rules will cost far more than $5000 to demonstrate.

Dr. Shark

Wed Feb 14 2007, 11:26AM

Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711

Since we are all good fellows here, I will post what I think are the "loopholes". Some community mindstorming will not hurt anyone, and if it does, what are $5000 between friends?

There is a vast amount of information about there about how Franklin, Tesla and all these guys who could not just plug their appliances into the wall generated electricity from odd sources. There is not only atmospheric charge (which is out by the rules), but there ground electricity ("telluric currents" is your google phrase), low frequency modulations in the earths magnetic field, resonating RF in the atmosphere, and I am sure many other things which can be tapped 24/7 everywhere on the planet. Since the rules only require a miniscule amount of energy to be generated, all of these stand a chance of being used successfully.

Geothermal energy holds promise for much greater power, so I looked into that too. Unfortunately the thermal gradient of the earth is only 20K per kilometer - not a lot. Even if you could dig 100m deep, running a heat engine on a temperature difference of only 2K gives a theoretical maximum efficiency of 1-T(cold)/T(hot)= 1%, so you wold have to move a lot of heat through your bore. You would also need to invent a new kind of engine, since the best stirling engines today still require some 20K difference to overcome friction and start moving.

Another random idea: Exploiting differences in air pressure - this has potential to move a piston with quite some force given sufficient area

Bjørn

Wed Feb 14 2007, 12:58PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

The rules indicate that the device must be built and run for 6 months. It does not say where, but "where you live" seems like a good spot. The device can't reasonably be tested everywhere so it must be enough to show logically that it will work everywhere. This means that geothermal power is realistic if someone lives in an area where the temperature gradient is extremely high.

Looking at the member map there is not a lot of people in such areas and some of the members seems to have misunderstood the basic principles of a map.

Wed Feb 14 2007, 02:07PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

The contest rules clearly state "In the event of clarification, interpretation or dispute of the written critera, the judges will deem the interpretation of this contest's financier (me) as final clarification." Judges and admins, please follow the contest rules. If that is not clear enough, then item 3 refers to "No-Man Made" in reference to the source of power. To S-P-E-L-L it out ...

I'll honor anything except slave labor. It's immoral and unethical to think that slave labor is a viable alternative energy source (good god, what are you thinking?) and goes against the spirit of the contest to find a viable alternative energy source. In fact, it's soooo low on the ethical scale, it did not seem necessary to mention to intelligent people... what's next to be suggested, harvesting human organs to burn as fuel in a steam engine? To be clear, I will honor anything other than manual labor (to spell it out for the loopholers, no human or animal power). That is fair and that is my final ruling as the financier of this contest. If you can't live with running a fair contest, cancel it. If cancelled, I hereby announce to all here that I continue the contest in a sain manner by accepting submission at my email **link**, or are you going to delete my email address too? How low can a select few of you sink? I'm not referring to you Nik. 99% of the people I've met here are great, just a few bad apples and a couple of them seem to be the one's with the delete button. Get on the technology wagon and forget the slave labor approach. I can be a useful financier and helper for people with viable technology and great ideas, I am very experienced in making many millions of dollars from good ideas and can likely help some of the talent here to do the same, or I can simply write the management of this site off as joke due to a couple bad apples... although that would be a shame since some really good folks log on here. CM

Bjørn

Wed Feb 14 2007, 02:40PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

The contest is not cancelled, in that case the thread would be closed. The moderators agreed that there were no rules against it.

No edits have been logged on the moderator forum, any edits that may have taken place will be in the database and an admin will look that up. Any changes to the rules after February 12th is not acceptable no matter who made the changes. Changing the rules after the contest have started changes it from a contest to fraud.

If you have any problems with anyone there is a forum (Moderator / Admin Contact) for that purpose, if you don't want to discuss it in public there are both personal messages and e-mail addresses available. Random unspecified accusations against unnamed persons breaks at least two rules so don't do it again.

Jose

Wed Feb 14 2007, 02:58PM

Registered Member #520 Joined: Wed Feb 14 2007, 02:47PM
Location: EspaÃ±a
Posts: 1

Hola, they excuse my writing since I am using the translator of ya.com. Since I do not understand his(its) language. It(He,She) wanted to know if it(he,she) is free the competition of the proposed source of energy and where it is necessary to publish her(it), it is the same space of the forum or as information I attach someone of the jurors??. A Greeting.

Bjørn

Wed Feb 14 2007, 03:15PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

The contest rules clearly state "In the event of clarification, interpretation or dispute of the written critera, the judges will deem the interpretation of this contest's financier (me) as final clarification." Judges and admins, please follow the contest rules. Item 3 refers to "No-Man Made" in reference to the source of power. To S-P-E-L-L it out ...

If some of the text have logic faults or are not specific enough to decode with the use of common sense then you can clarify as much as you like as long as it is not in contradiction with the rules as written. That means you can't claim that you meant something else than you wrote since it is not possible to verify your claim.

It(He,She) wanted to know if it(he,she) is free the competition of the proposed source of energy and where it is necessary to publish her(it), it is the same space of the forum or as information I attach someone of the jurors??

If you want to take part in the contest you can post on the forum, but you should get a human to translate your text. If no one can understand you then it makes little sense to post.

Wed Feb 14 2007, 03:18PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

Thanks for making my point...USE COMMON SENSE! Stop trying to evade the rules and the spirit of the contest. CM
-----
Joe:

I'd be extremely pleased to see someone win this contest with telluric currents. I would definitely be interested in that manner of clean renewable energy! My ion antenna utilizes a derivative of telluric current when the earth changes its potential compared to my HV collectors (or vise-versa). I've done a bit of unfinished research into earth currents and feel it is a wide open field for someone creative to figure out how to effectively tap the earth currents. Some have tried, including me but I got side tracked, I don't believe the correct 'harvesting' approach has been implimented yet. (I buried 60 feet of 4 inch copper pipe 20 feet underground as the "ground" for my ion antenna, and found some interesting effects that develop when you have that large of a ground pointed in the right direction. I did just enough research to believe there is decent potential for someone who is able to figure out the correct geometry/polarity/direction combination for the underground collectors. Solar flares and other environmental effects produce surprisingly large electrical currents in the ground, almost as if the earth was acting as a compatible receiving antenna for an external energy source resulting in electricity currents. Tesla rarely gets enough public credit for his amazing foresight and accomplishments, in my opinion. (Hint: Telluric currents is a good direction to look to). (2nd hint: the 'compass' direction and depth that you install your 'earth current antennas' matters) CM

P.S. It's easy to generate a 'false positive' when searching for telluric current using metals buried underground, as the impurities in the metals can form a cathode/anode relationship generating DC V/amps... including if your using the same type of metal everywhere in you're underground collection system... that would be the creation of an "earth battery"(assuming you've provided a suitable circuit for the power to propogate)... rather than harvesting Telluric current. I know, cause I got excited when I measured good V/amps, until I realized it was impurities (and/or mineral differences) in the metal that degrade with time. Different manufacturing runs of the same metal (even from the same manufacturer) can result in enough variation in the metals to create the battery effect. Just a lil something for anyone tinkering with earth currents to be aware of. CM

[mod edit] fixed double post

Chris Russell

Wed Feb 14 2007, 06:15PM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

I'm sorry, but this is a forum, not a game show. There will be no $5,000 contest here. If you would still like to have one, please have it somewhere else. I will tolerate no further posts on this matter.

As has been pointed out above, the contest is clearly geared to generate a specific outcome. It is almost certainly not possible to win, given that CM can edit his post and change the fine print at will.

I should also point out the text at the bottom of this site, the terms and conditions that everyone specifically agreed to when registering:

All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed.

In other words, anything that is posted here by the person who owns the rights to that material is released under the above license: anyone can use it or create derivative works based on it, even commercially. All that is required is that they offer the work under the same license. Therefore, if you're looking to patent or copyright something and sell it for a lot of money, it shouldn't be posted here. This community is for the free exchange of information and ideas. Let's leave the business out of it.

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Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob