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4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
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Very dissapointed in MOT Tesla coil.

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omegalabs
Sun Apr 05 2015, 02:40PM
omegalabs Registered Member #1521 Joined: Thu Jun 05 2008, 10:46AM
Location: Hungary
Posts: 128
For MOTs I recommend high primary capacitance (50-100nF) as their current/voltage ratio is high, a rotary spark gap and much lower resonant frequency. Without these it'll be a pain making long sparks.
But for 0,5m sparklenght a small NST is more useful than overballasted MOTs.
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Download
Tue Apr 07 2015, 08:42AM
Download Registered Member #561 Joined: Sat Mar 03 2007, 02:46AM
Location: Adelaide Australia
Posts: 230
Patric wrote ...

And what ballast? And then you have only 5000V without the ballast.

I've always mucked around with MOTs without ballast. It probably explains why I usually end up tripping the 240V 15A breaker in my house. Seeing as you can overload the MOTs for a while without them melting maybe you could only use two in core connected series?
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Patric
Tue Apr 07 2015, 09:48AM
Patric Registered Member #2899 Joined: Wed Jun 02 2010, 06:31PM
Location: Deinze, Belgium
Posts: 254
I will use 3 MOT's in series, but must look out for a current limiter and a rotary spark-gap I suppose...
Thanks again for the help!
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Download
Tue Apr 07 2015, 10:27AM
Download Registered Member #561 Joined: Sat Mar 03 2007, 02:46AM
Location: Adelaide Australia
Posts: 230
I'd be worried about using three MOTs as it requires running them past their designed voltage.
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Patric
Tue Apr 07 2015, 04:39PM
Patric Registered Member #2899 Joined: Wed Jun 02 2010, 06:31PM
Location: Deinze, Belgium
Posts: 254
Download wrote ...

I'd be worried about using three MOTs as it requires running them past their designed voltage.

You are right! I tried and was getting sparks where there must be no sparks.
Will make the Tesla with two MOT's, I have almost 5kV.
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loneoceans
Tue Apr 07 2015, 05:41PM
loneoceans Registered Member #4098 Joined: Fri Sept 16 2011, 09:26PM
Location:
Posts: 236
Hello Patric, it looks like you have a reasonable setup already but with several tweaks and making some new parts you should be able to get your coil going well. What I believe is the main problem now is that your spark gap is not quenching due to the huge current and low voltage you are getting from your paralleled MOT stack.

As mentioned by a few people, the first thing you should do is to fix your power supply and decide what sort of power you want to run the coil at. With 4 MOTs, I’d wire all the primaries and parallel and all the secondaries in series, being sure to make the phasing correct. This results in higher voltage than the MOTs were designed to handle, so you need to put them under oil for reliability. I used this in my Tesla Coil 2 which I built a decade ago and it’s still going strong. See the schematic on how I wired it up here. Link2

You will find that this will draw a lot of power (as you have noted), so you can use MOT caps as a ballast, or simple, a fifth MOT with the secondary shorted out and the primary placed in series with the paralleled primary, acting as a rudimentary ballast to about 1000 to 2000W depending on your ballast MOT. For my setup, I eventually ran it from a 30A 240V line, so I wouldn’t trip the breaker. It draws about 4.2kVA when running.

You can also do a dual MOT setup for 5kV, but this will be very tricky to get a static spark gap to fire reliably. This brings me to the next thing you need to fix – your spark gap.
Due to the huge current the MOT stack can deliver, quenching the spark gap is very difficult. The way you have it set up currently will not work at all since the moment the spark gap shorts, the high current of the MOT stack will simply sustain that arc. If you make a static gap, you will need a very strong blower or vac to quench the gap.

What I prefer instead is to make a rotary spark gap. There are lots of information online on how you can make one, as I have done for my Tesla Coil 2.

I would also try to re-do your primary coil, to make it a bit more tidy. As it is, it looks like your coupling is very low as well since your secondary coil begins much higher up than where the primary is. I would spend a bit of effort to tidy up the primary coil, perhaps mounting on a flat board in a spiral shape, and position it so it is level with the first turn of your secondary coil. You should also improve your primary cables to some beefier ones – it looks like you used some very thin wires for your primary circuit, which will result in huge losses and very poor performance.

As for MKP caps, they are one of the best capacitors you can use for Tesla Coils and there is nothing wrong with using them. The foil-type ones are better, but the MKP caps do just fine. Likewise, my TC2 uses MKP as well (instead of metal foil). However as people have pointed out, it would be great if you can double your primary capacitance to something closer to 50nF or more.

12220819435 A00dd2a0bc

Here’s a photo of my TC 2 running with the 4 MOT stack. It has generally similar parameters to what you have, so hopefully it will be a good basis for building. Construction information here: Link2
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Patric
Tue Apr 07 2015, 08:00PM
Patric Registered Member #2899 Joined: Wed Jun 02 2010, 06:31PM
Location: Deinze, Belgium
Posts: 254
loneoceans wrote ...

Hello Patric, it looks like you have a reasonable setup already but with several tweaks and making some new parts you should be able to get your coil going well. What I believe is the main problem now is that your spark gap is not quenching due to the huge current and low voltage you are getting from your paralleled MOT stack.

As mentioned by a few people, the first thing you should do is to fix your power supply and decide what sort of power you want to run the coil at. With 4 MOTs, I’d wire all the primaries and parallel and all the secondaries in series, being sure to make the phasing correct. This results in higher voltage than the MOTs were designed to handle, so you need to put them under oil for reliability. I used this in my Tesla Coil 2 which I built a decade ago and it’s still going strong. See the schematic on how I wired it up here. Link2

You will find that this will draw a lot of power (as you have noted), so you can use MOT caps as a ballast, or simple, a fifth MOT with the secondary shorted out and the primary placed in series with the paralleled primary, acting as a rudimentary ballast to about 1000 to 2000W depending on your ballast MOT. For my setup, I eventually ran it from a 30A 240V line, so I wouldn’t trip the breaker. It draws about 4.2kVA when running.

You can also do a dual MOT setup for 5kV, but this will be very tricky to get a static spark gap to fire reliably. This brings me to the next thing you need to fix – your spark gap.
Due to the huge current the MOT stack can deliver, quenching the spark gap is very difficult. The way you have it set up currently will not work at all since the moment the spark gap shorts, the high current of the MOT stack will simply sustain that arc. If you make a static gap, you will need a very strong blower or vac to quench the gap.

What I prefer instead is to make a rotary spark gap. There are lots of information online on how you can make one, as I have done for my Tesla Coil 2.

I would also try to re-do your primary coil, to make it a bit more tidy. As it is, it looks like your coupling is very low as well since your secondary coil begins much higher up than where the primary is. I would spend a bit of effort to tidy up the primary coil, perhaps mounting on a flat board in a spiral shape, and position it so it is level with the first turn of your secondary coil. You should also improve your primary cables to some beefier ones – it looks like you used some very thin wires for your primary circuit, which will result in huge losses and very poor performance.

As for MKP caps, they are one of the best capacitors you can use for Tesla Coils and there is nothing wrong with using them. The foil-type ones are better, but the MKP caps do just fine. Likewise, my TC2 uses MKP as well (instead of metal foil). However as people have pointed out, it would be great if you can double your primary capacitance to something closer to 50nF or more.

12220819435 A00dd2a0bc

Here’s a photo of my TC 2 running with the 4 MOT stack. It has generally similar parameters to what you have, so hopefully it will be a good basis for building. Construction information here: Link2

That is fantastic! I will use two MOT's, 100 nF capacitor and a rotary spark gap. What would be the speed of the spark gap? I do not want soooooo very much, a 50 cm (20 inch) spark is more than enough, is this possible wih my alignment?
Thank you so much for your long answer and the hope you gave me!
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