Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 23
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
All today's birthdays', congrats!
Adam Munich (30)
Alfredo Texacca (60)


Next birthdays
05/04 Matthew T. (35)
05/04 Amrit Deshmukh (60)
05/05 Alexandre (32)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

DRSSTC Peak Primary Current formula?

 1 2 3
Move Thread LAN_403
Uspring
Sat Feb 01 2014, 07:14PM
Uspring Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711
Are you sure? This is basically describing what I initially thought would happen until you stated otherwise:
Reasonably so. The "corrections" I made were due to the wrong assumption of switching between +170V and -170V rails.

Kizmo wrote:
Interesting thing is that the primary current can be larger than this math suggests too. All depends on your load conditions and tuning point. I think under some conditions the secondary can back drive the primary resulting higher currents.
The only condition I can think up for this is a short cut secondary. That would not cause any losses but reduce primary inductance, i.e. higher primary frequency. Cycles are then shorter and rampup is faster. It is a small effect since coupling is low. A sensibly tuned secondary which isn't short cut avoids this.

Back to top
Kizmo
Sat Feb 01 2014, 07:43PM
Kizmo Registered Member #599 Joined: Thu Mar 22 2007, 07:40PM
Location: Northern Finland, Rovaniemi
Posts: 624
Something like this happened when i first ran my big coil. More than likely the tuning was way off but with secondary in place i was able to trip the over current protection which did not happen when i tested it without secondary.

Who knows, might have been something else too.. :)
Back to top
Dr. Dark Current
Sat Feb 01 2014, 11:12PM
Dr. Dark Current Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
If you stored more energy in the primary tank cap than you put in, well that would be, say it .. a perpetuum mobile cheesey
Back to top
Sigurthr
Wed Jul 23 2014, 06:37AM
Sigurthr Registered Member #4463 Joined: Wed Apr 18 2012, 08:08AM
Location: MI's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 597
Hey everyone, hope you don't mind the slightly necropost. I do have new content to add though, I'm quite happy to announce!

I've been studying C++ programming lately and have learned enough to write a basic calculator program for the formulae discussed in this thread. I've tested it on all my PCs, which are windows 7 and 8.1, so I cannot guarantee that it will work on any other platform or OS. Please let me know what you think.

Here's the link to download the .rar Link2
EDIT: Fixed the link, now points to the correct release file! Sorry folks!

Just for reference; here are the formulae I used:
Ipk = V / (2Pi * Lpri * fres)
N = Vlimit / Vbus
(half bridge)
N = (Vlimit / Vbus) / 2
(full bridge)
Where:
N = number of switched half cycles. Vlimit = chosen peak tank voltage.
Back to top
DerStrom8
Wed Jul 23 2014, 12:55PM
DerStrom8 Registered Member #3704 Joined: Sun Feb 20 2011, 01:13PM
Location: Vermont, U.S.A.
Posts: 92
Hi Sigurthr, thanks for posting.

I get an error when I try to run the exe on Windows 8: Link2

I did some quick research and found this: Link2

Hopefully this will be an easy fix, as I am very eager to try out this program of yours!

Regards,
Matt
Back to top
Sigurthr
Thu Jul 24 2014, 01:37AM
Sigurthr Registered Member #4463 Joined: Wed Apr 18 2012, 08:08AM
Location: MI's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 597
My Apologies, DerStrom8! I accidentally uploaded the debugging version instead of the release version.

Here's the correct link: Link2
Back to top
DerStrom8
Thu Jul 24 2014, 01:48AM
DerStrom8 Registered Member #3704 Joined: Sun Feb 20 2011, 01:13PM
Location: Vermont, U.S.A.
Posts: 92
That one works much better Sigurthr, thanks! Now I've got a stupid question: How would one determine the percentage to derate their capacitor by? Guess I'm not quite sure how to figure that out in this case.

Regards,
Matt

EDIT: I just assumed 60% for sake of argument and got the following for my Tesla coil:

Vh521d

Seems legit to me! Thanks a lot, this will help a lot!

Matt
Back to top
Sigurthr
Thu Jul 24 2014, 02:01AM
Sigurthr Registered Member #4463 Joined: Wed Apr 18 2012, 08:08AM
Location: MI's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 597
It's just an amount you want in the voltage overhead for the cap. I use 10% generally, but it really depends on cap type. If your MMC is rated for 30kV then you could probably go to 5% as that would leave 1500V overhead.

The reason I put the figure in there at all is that it is an easy way to adjust the outputs of the program without changing multiple inputs. For example: if you put in 0 derating and it says you can't run more than 500uS bursts without exceeding the cap rating, but the peak current is well over what your bridge can handle, for example maybe 1200A, you can re-run the program with various derating factors to find a new maximum usable burst length that doesn't exceed your bridge's current capability.
Back to top
 1 2 3

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.