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$5000 CONTEST! and follow up investment! ***CANCELLED***

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Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Feb 13 2007, 08:21AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

You're kidding right?!

I've already thought of that one. It's really simple. It's just a long heat exchanger drilled a suitable depth into the crust of the earth where a closed circuit of a liquid medium circulates, and turns a turbine at the surface. It works continuously because the medium cools as it reaches the surface and is pumped through the circuit by the hotter liquid down below. Mr. Wizard demonstrated it while the show was still on the air.

It works everywhere, is continuous output, burns nothing, and you could turn it into a 'farm' if you desired. AND to top it off, it uses existing technology. If you look into SULPHUR extraction, you would just use the same plumbing as the Sulphur extraction with the exception of making it a bit deeper to absorb enough thermal energy.

That's my $.02

Carbon_Rod

Tue Feb 13 2007, 09:22AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

5 grand? Hmmm... such a device is worth exponentially more.
Just to clarify, You are asking for around 3 joules/hour constant flow output.

Is the Hydrogen really necessary?
You should need around 6 joules/hour constant flow for regular electrolysis to get the power you need back out of the fuel cell later. Plus more for other losses.

If physical size limits, and cost per joule is not an issue then yes it is currently is achievable -- just not very practical as the design I recall violates the rule of no battery in part of the process. However as some capacitors can last a long time are they in fair spec?

By "all season" did you mean immune to things like lightning strikes, forest fire, tornado, and hurricane? Or.. just normal temperatures.

This sounds somewhat like a mini-$25 million prize offered by Richard Brandson.

The 150 joules/day unit can be built for under $100 per unit...
(and no its not a hamster...)

Tue Feb 13 2007, 03:25PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

THIS is the type of brainstorming I love to hear! Very few things I enjoy more than sitting in a room full of smart engineers and techs (visions from my past) and listening to them brainstorm about how to accomplish a common goal... rather than back biting each other about how they can't accomplish a goal. Eric - I like your idea, it has potential. Nic- pretty funny, but human power is out, slave labor isnâ€™t a politically or legally acceptable form of â€˜alternative powerâ€™, besides, item 3) incorporates the phrase â€œno man-madeâ€, but Iâ€™ve clarified the language for other readers. Remember guys and gals, the purpose of this contest isnâ€™t to try and find a legal loophole to slip through to win money; it is to move us forward in technology, not backward to slave labor sources of energy. Carbon, I agree with you, a device that can fulfill the contest rules would be worth much much more, and Iâ€™m prepared to consider assisting in early stage financing of a genuine winner, but not somebody who manages to find a loophole to slip through. The reason for the hydrogen requirement driving a motor as proof of work, addresses two important issues in the near future, 1) production of hydrogen, 2) utilization of hydrogen as proof of work. Do I expect $5000 to cover all expenses of you producing a device that meets the requirements, probably not, but itâ€™s a small step in the right direction. Much more $ could be made available. Its already prompted you fine folks into brainstorming together, who knows, one of you may turn out to be the next Edison or Tesla thinking right now how to crack this technological nut. To me, it doesnâ€™t matter who does it, as long as it eventually gets done before we ruin our planet or are forced to live back in the stone age due to lack of power. The device doesnâ€™t have to be hurricane proof etcâ€¦. the phrase â€œall seasonsâ€, simply reinforces the concept that the device works continuously (95% duty cycle) around the year, anywhere on earth. Clearly if an earthquake or acts of nature destroy the device, that of course, would be an exception. On the matter of the 95% duty cycle, the intent of that phrase is to mean the device is actually producing, generating, energy 95% of the time (example of non-acceptable approach, a device that produces only 20% of the time, but stores energy in batteries or other in an attempt to output some level of power 95% of the time, hope that is clear, if not, lemme know), or said differently, the device is actively producing electricity at 95% duty cycle without the aid of storage devices such as caps, batteries, fuel cells, etc. Caps used for smoothing out AC ripple, etc, are fine. Andrew, water is an acceptable consumable, included melting ice to make liquid water. Gotta run now, if I missed any other questions, lemme know.

Dr. Shark

Tue Feb 13 2007, 04:23PM

Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711

Hazzmat, I have been thinking along similar lines as you have. Instead of geothermal power it was more along the lines of harvesting energy from the temerature differences of day and night though. 1m deep in the ground the temperature should be fairly constant, whereas the surface might on average heat up and cool down by 5K or so each day. That would be just enough to power a LTD (Low Thermal Differential) Stirling engine.

Geopower sounds a lot more feasible, but I am not sure how deep one has to dig in various places of the planet to reach a sufficient temperature. I imagine that drilling a 100m hole to harvest 1W of energy would be prohibitively expensive and complicated.

Just to clarify once more, as I get the challenge the goal is to produce a device that can continously generate power in some remote area, e.g. a beacon on the north pole or scientific apparatus on a sattellite. In the past, RTGs

(scroll done for a lovely Russian specimen) have been used to a similar effect, but since they consume Plutonium, they are out.

The most obvious remaning possibilities are solar power, exploiting temperature gradients, and wind power.
Problem: None of these would fulfill the requirement of the 95% duty cycle, as all these depend on the sun in some way. And as we all now, the sun rotates around the earth, so it just does not have a 95% duty-cycle

In the interest of real-world applicability of the powersource I propose following change to the rules: The device has to generate an average power of at least 1W, and it is allowed to store power for up to 24h. To still rule out batteries and electrolytic capacitors, a minimum lifetime of 20 years or so could be required.

I think this would steer the community effort here into the direction of an alternative energy source with true real-world use.

Tue Feb 13 2007, 05:07PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

Joe:

The basis for the 4 criteria are founded in the fact that there already exists an alternative energy source that meets all 4 criteria (but it is exempt from the contest). Alex decided I shouldn't talk about it much more because I'm not willing to share 'more data', and I won't be until after the patent issues. She closed down a previous thread in an act of censorship. If this is her site, and/or she's obviously authorized to do so, I can't be held accountable for another's judgement to close down a active thread. My contest is intended to stimulate some of the obvious brilliant minds here on this board into a cohesive force to come up with something completely different than my ionic approach. Not so long ago, running a 4 minute mile was considered 'unreachable' by the intellectual status quo of physicians, that is until Roger Bannister ran a mile in under 4 mins. Once others learned it was possible, it was only 46 days later that someone else did even better!

Moral of the story is, none of us should be afraid to try new ideas if you believe in them, even in light of the intellectuals saying it's not possible. While I am sitting around waiting for my 3rd patent to clear, I believe that others on this board, smarter and more creative than me, can come up with other approaches to the energy issue.

Btw, Peter, no size limit, and efficiency of lifting the weight will be related to which fuel cell and motor your decide to use. It doesn't have to conform to anybody elses standards, so you can choose whatever fuel cell and motor that you want. CM

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Feb 13 2007, 10:27PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Joe, you don't really have to drill all that deep. Volcanic Islands like Japan and Hawaii have a lot of potential, not to mention Greenland. Also let me point out that on a bulk landmass like North America, there is one of the world's largest Calderas sitting under our feet, its called Yellowstone National Park.

It's possible, they may have to come up with entirely new drilling schemes to go through volcanic rock because of its hardness, but I think its possible.

TheMerovingian

Tue Feb 13 2007, 10:34PM

Registered Member #14 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:04PM
Location: Prato/italy
Posts: 383

Using the salinity gradient of the sea (deeper water is more concentrated) to build a concentration battery. The problem is to find a suitable reaction

Bjørn

Tue Feb 13 2007, 11:25PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

The contest started Feb 12, no changes to the rules after that. The judges will use the original set of rules. It is up to the judges to decide what is moral, legal, reality and fiction.

All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed.

Please think before you post, this thread is on the General Science and Electronics forum and all posts must be on 100% topic. Read the rules of the competition twice before you propose any ideas. When you propose it the idea belongs to the forum as dictated by the above license. If you wonder where the licence comes from it is at the bottom of every page of the forum and you agreed to it when you joined the forum.

The rules of the competition have been rigged with the purpose of generating a specific outcome. Unless you find a loophole you are not going to win the $5000.

...

Wed Feb 14 2007, 12:14AM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

Well, are we supposed to post about our loopholes? I have a few in mind...

Bjørn

Wed Feb 14 2007, 12:40AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

As long as you have thought it through and are happy with someone else to run away with a possible $5000 then there is no reason why not.

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