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Registered Member #135
Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735
Sulaiman,
They are using a very high voltage "taser" for their B+ on the magentrons, that is where the snapping noise is coming from.
When my capacitor bank flashed over (12nF 30kvdc doorknobs) on my SGTC, the video camera had the same effect, it was a mild form of EMP and caused distortion and loss of focus on the camera. I believe all of the video interference is being caused by their taser, I think that's entirely plausible. Their scooter dying, their stereo dying, and other silly things are likely staged.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Heh, used the same trick (old gas igniter) for my experiments! Also noticed the EMP effect, did some damage to my camera this way once. Actually its not always EMP, cameras try to focus "behind" the discharge as it is so bright, and the CCD tends to overload. I found that the fix was to use an IR filter, alas the camera did not work for long.
EDIT: Back in 2009 (possibly) I came up with a drive circuit which if minimally modified could power a magnetron in QCW mode. I did not pursue any further research in this area because it had unforeseen dangerous side effects! please PM me for more information.
Registered Member #58454
Joined: Thu Feb 18 2016, 06:33AM
Location:
Posts: 23
dexter wrote ...
i don't get how the EM drive could ever generates trust... wouldn't the microwaves also bounce from the cone walls thus negating the top and bottom plates bounce inequality?
That is a complaint that has been leveled against its feasibility. I don't know much about it. It just seems to me it's something that can be easily confirmed or ruled out by amateur experimenters.
Registered Member #11591
Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556
Robert Clark wrote ...
dexter wrote ...
i don't get how the EM drive could ever generates trust... wouldn't the microwaves also bounce from the cone walls thus negating the top and bottom plates bounce inequality?
That is a complaint that has been leveled against its feasibility. I don't know much about it. It just seems to me it's something that can be easily confirmed or ruled out by amateur experimenters.
Bob Clark
Well, the issue is not the ease of which a "EM-drive" can be made, but the requirements for testing it. The supposed thrust is so small, that without laboratory equipment and a laboratory environment nothing can be detected at all that can't be explained by other means. And even with the right resources those scientists are finding it a hard job to say yes or no.
Registered Member #58454
Joined: Thu Feb 18 2016, 06:33AM
Location:
Posts: 23
DerAlbi wrote ...
Sulamain.. which EM interference? You mean the video editing to simulate image sensor artifacts? All that why they press the trigger and simulate the thing would have some kind of recoil to make it more like shooting something? One question: why would an image sensor be affected (and that only partially at a time, so you can still see the action for youtube!!), but the MP4 or whatever encoding processor works flawlessly... do you have ever seen a blocky corrupted encoded file? Guess what, it wouldnt look good on youtube. Also have you ever seen an overloaded image sensor due to laser damage? Those image artefacts take a lot of time to vanish... also the purple nature of the artifacts is very interesting. Somehow the 2.45GHz of the magnetrons manage to excite only the blue and red sensors, but not the green ones which there are twice as much of.... Please, think critically; dont say its true because you wish it was.. And its not a short pulse. The duration of the simulated image sensor artefacts (if they were true) can last a second or more... 3 Magnetrons would have a power of at least 2kW... this means 2000J energy delivery.... you are on the forum long enough to know how a 2kJ energy storage looks like... i just wonder why you ignore the basics. unbelievable that one has to debunk a video like this on a forum like that. shouldnt happen.
The effect should only be visible on the devices it was pointed at because of the waveguide. On the other hand if were only EMP effects it should have occurred also on the camera recording it for Youtube:
How to make a Microwave Gun.
Also, many amateurs have made "microwave guns" showing similar effects:
In regards to the energy content requirements, lithium rechargeable batteries get about 200 Wh/kg = 200*3,600 watt-seconds/kg = 720,000 J/kg. So if you needed 2,000 J per shot, you could get 360 shots from a kilo of lithium batteries, or 40 shots from 4 ounces of batteries.
Registered Member #2906
Joined: Sun Jun 06 2010, 02:20AM
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 727
Please continue debunking your self... dont stop with the formulas there.. 4 Batteries haave what voltage? For a given Power thats how much current? For that current, how big is the voltage drop over their wimpy cable and ESR of the batteries? That limits the efficiency of the device how much? Does the Magnetron work on the remaining voltage? If they use a teaser as driver like others mention, does a teaser have enough power to power even one Magnetron? Why they need 3 of those? So is this project then referable to as something that proves something could work, if the project itself is a technical nightmare? Or are you chasing a dream because someone bullshitted you on YT?
Why did you stop with your scientific explanation where the answer you got was the one you _wanted_ to get there is a lot coming afterwards. If the progress of humanity would depend on such kind of thinking we would back in the the religious middle ages. Thanks for your contribution No, honestly: bad habit. It serves no one. Neither you nor others.
Anyway. i think this is somewhat off topic. This is obviously not about whats believable, but its already decided that people want to believe. Praise 4hvChurch.org.
Registered Member #58454
Joined: Thu Feb 18 2016, 06:33AM
Location:
Posts: 23
The discussion of whether or not combining the magnetrons will be effective is not getting to the heart of the matter. I was suggesting combining six magnetrons only because it would give a nice round number of 1 gram-force for the alleged EM-drive effect. But of course university students and amateurs could just as easily measure a force of 1/6th that, which supposedly would come from a single 1,000 watt microwave.
You can get a used microwave oven from a thrift store for $25. I like the description given in the video I linked before for how to use the microwave's magnetron to do experiments with microwaves, including the safety precautions:
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Has anyone considered using multiple S/P piezotransformers in an array? As HVDC is needed this approach is plausible and would make for a very compact low RF noise device if HV diodes are used to separate transformers in a broadly similar way to a conventional IHVT.
PZTs or Rosen transformers are quite easy to drive and be bought new from Digikey among other suppliers or scavenged from broken laptops. The output voltage is around 1.7KV off load so a 3S3P array would give 5.5KV at >400mA which is more than adequate for short pulses. I believe that one major observation at cryogenic temperatures is that pulsed operation is far more efficient as chamber can be tuned to dissipate heat between pulses.
Registered Member #162
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
DerAlbi wrote ...
Please continue debunking your self... dont stop with the formulas there.. 4 Batteries haave what voltage? For a given Power thats how much current? For that current, how big is the voltage drop over their wimpy cable and ESR of the batteries? That limits the efficiency of the device how much? Does the Magnetron work on the remaining voltage? If they use a teaser as driver like others mention, does a teaser have enough power to power even one Magnetron? Why they need 3 of those? So is this project then referable to as something that proves something could work, if the project itself is a technical nightmare? Or are you chasing a dream because someone bullshitted you on YT?
Why did you stop with your scientific explanation where the answer you got was the one you _wanted_ to get there is a lot coming afterwards. If the progress of humanity would depend on such kind of thinking we would back in the the religious middle ages. Thanks for your contribution No, honestly: bad habit. It serves no one. Neither you nor others.
Anyway. i think this is somewhat off topic. This is obviously not about whats believable, but its already decided that people want to believe. Praise 4hvChurch.org.
Maybe you are looking at it based on incorrect assumptions; I guess that energy is transfered from the battery to a storage capacitor, maybe at a few hundred volts, then transformed to a short high voltage pulse at high power, which powers the magnetrons, and maybe three in parallel forms a suitable load ? but there other possibiities.
- just as I can make a 4" spark with a 1.4 W dc input sgtc ... at very low repetition rate. Even though of short duration and incapable of cooking a frankfurter, these arcs easily destroy semiconductors.
The antenna horn is many wavelengths wide, hence it could be very directional.
I am not saying that everything in that video is real, but that it could be, e.g. a short-circuit semiconductor can easily start a chain reaction that ends in catastrophic failure of a power supply for example - releasing the magic smoke.
P.S. another guess: the red filament lamp is part of the magnetron heater circuitry - these guys seem very inventive/pragmatic - good amateur scientists - and entertaining.
The truth probably lies somewhere between my hopeless naievety and your scathing scepticism.
Even when people seem ignorant it is best to be nice to them, or your own ignorance may be revealed, this is a place for all to enjoy, and benefit from.
Have you experimented with pulsed magnetrons ? (hint: the answer is either "no" or "yes but I did not understand what I was doing")
If you are incapable of understanding the above then you certainly should not try to understand, or comment on, EM drive.
Registered Member #58454
Joined: Thu Feb 18 2016, 06:33AM
Location:
Posts: 23
Conundrum wrote ...
Has anyone considered using multiple S/P piezotransformers in an array? As HVDC is needed this approach is plausible and would make for a very compact low RF noise device if HV diodes are used to separate transformers in a broadly similar way to a conventional IHVT.
PZTs or Rosen transformers are quite easy to drive and be bought new from Digikey among other suppliers or scavenged from broken laptops. The output voltage is around 1.7KV off load so a 3S3P array would give 5.5KV at >400mA which is more than adequate for short pulses. I believe that one major observation at cryogenic temperatures is that pulsed operation is far more efficient as chamber can be tuned to dissipate heat between pulses.
Thanks for that info. Another project I'm investigating requires kilovolt voltages but at lightweight. Typical ferrite core transformers are too heavy for my application.
What's the weight of those PZT transformers able to deliver 1.7 KV*400mA = 680 watts?
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Amateurs testing the EM-drive?
No, honestly: bad habit. It serves no one. Neither you nor others.