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Registered Member #834
Joined: Tue Jun 12 2007, 10:57PM
Location: Brazil
Posts: 644
Enceladus wrote ...
I think I get what your saying. I certainly have a lot still to learn, but a lot of what I said above is actually consistent with what you're saying here.
So in a real world coil, what is a typical critical value, where the correlation stops? I could use some examples. What about slayer exiters? They often don't even include a primary cap, and basically just pump the secondary circuit continuously. Also, what about 3-coil TC's? Doesn't the tertiary circuit effectiveness depend on it having high Q?
In the picture is a simulation of the output of a Tesla coil, that ideally should generate 100 kV, oscillating at ~500 kHz. Four curves are shown, for secondary Q= infinity, 1000, 100, and 10. It can be seen that only Q=10 results in serious loss. In circuits having continuous excitation, and not the single capacitor discharge of a Tesla coil, Q really plays a role in determining the maximum voltage before breakout.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Yup, piezo transformers do work. PLEASE NOTE: this may or may not be patented, I have no idea but some discussions on this subject were recently removed from this and other forums, suspect that they infringed on something. If so then it would be useful to know for future reference.
Registered Member #61428
Joined: Sat Jan 14 2017, 12:39PM
Location:
Posts: 50
jpsmith123 wrote ...
And I think an answer is no, because, when you look at a crystal equivalent circuit, you cannot get access to a set of terminals where there would be a voltage gain as in a discrete LC circuit.
That's exactly what I see when trying to simulate the concept; but consider a crystal used in a gas igniter. When it is subjected to a rapid change in mechanical stress it develops a high voltage pulse at its terminals. Now if that stress were instead created by an alternating electric field at the crystals resonant frequency rather than a mechanical shock, how does the crystal know the difference? How would you model an igniter crystal differently?
Registered Member #61428
Joined: Sat Jan 14 2017, 12:39PM
Location:
Posts: 50
jpsmith123 wrote ...
It seems you're close to re-discovering the concept of a piezoelectric transformer .
Haha, yes, Ereland mentioned them in passing above and I asked for links but never saw a reply. I only posted this thread because all of my attempts at researching the concept seemed to veer toward work done by John Hutchison and other similarly pseudoscientific researchers. I attribute it to certain peoples' perception that crystals are somehow "magical". I love TI technical docs though. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for this link.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Thermodynamics still applies, PZTs (google "Rosen transformer") still have losses but they are not as severe as with a conventional wound transformer. I did read somewhere that graphene "windings" have been suggested and some products already use them.
I also found that Transoner (tm) does work but the yields are much lower than they first thought and the failure mode is total so bad units can't even be used for low power applications. Its worth mentioning that the problems might be fixable by growing them using MOCVD or a related mechanism similar to how some of the newer EL panels are made.
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High Voltage Crystal Oscillator
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