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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Direct Methanol Fuel Cell Project.

 1 2 3 
Move Thread LAN_403
Patrick
Sat Jan 28 2017, 11:00PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
hen918 wrote ...

Patrick wrote ...

I think the pump was an oversight on my part.

....

Aluminum, copper, unknown steel and plastic, sigh.

i think its on to the peristaltic pump type.

it looks like a little gear pump to me.
A peristaltic pump has one continuous flexible tube (sometimes the same tube that supplies it), a cam flattens the tube turns, forcing the liquid through the pump.
A peristaltic pump would be better for lower contaminants, but would probably have a lower flow.

yes its a tiny gear pump. Ill use a peristolic without fittings just super-soft silicone RC engine tubing. Im looking at the flow requirements too.

the real issue is equal flow trough out the paralleled flow channels. I dont want to put in artificial restrictions in as we would with resistors.


EDIT:

I measured the dry resistance of the 4mg^2 Pl/B side. It was 2.6 ohms per 0.95 inches.
the 4mg^2 Pl/Ru side is so close as to be the same i think.

this tells me that the carbon cloth really controls absolute resistance. But i measured across almost an inch. so reducing resistance means more contact area with out blocking surface area. Thinness of the carbon layer also matters. A single side of the cell is 0.03".
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Patrick
Sun Jan 29 2017, 09:45PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Im trying to figure out the distance from piont to point and flat to flat for these 1/4-28 UNF plumbing bits.


1485726312 2431 FT178748 64741p



1485726312 2431 FT178748 Ss Foil 2
Heres a 3d printed positive
and negative form. the foil took shape easily with only a few turns of the C-clamp.


1485726312 2431 FT178748 Ss Foil
The foil is actually better in shape than these pics show.
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Carbon_Rod
Mon Jan 30 2017, 04:16AM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
@Patrick
Do you know if the membraneless Peroxide+Methanol fuel cells are commercially available yet?

This paper may offer some fluid handling tips:
Link2

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Patrick
Mon Jan 30 2017, 08:59AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
it looks like the forming of the channels isnt as difficult as i thought it would be.
1485766761 2431 FT178748 Ss Foil 3d
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Patrick
Tue Jan 31 2017, 06:03PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
it just shriveled up.


1485885833 2431 FT178748 Shriveld

1485885833 2431 FT178748 Shriveld 2


the Naifion shriveld up and one side slowly peeled off. mad
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Carbon_Rod
Tue Jan 31 2017, 07:31PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
This discusses the properties of pre-stetched Naifion in more detail:
Link2

I am sceptical the carrier-pack was Naifion as well, but it may be difficult to know as the manufacturer is being secretive.

Science hurts sometimes, and the best people I've met make mistakes everyday...
wink
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Patrick
Tue Jan 31 2017, 09:03PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
This is a great PDF, i cant find many like it do to pay-walls, and i can get e-books and research materials from chico at the moment since im not an active student.

i dont know if it needs to be restrained or not ? or if the Naifion can be epoxied to or not.
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Carbon_Rod
Tue Jan 31 2017, 10:13PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
"i dont know if it needs to be restrained or not ?"
I don’t think it will be your biggest efficiency loss at this point given the structural tears.

"or if the Naifion can be epoxied to or not."
Epoxy is not good for TFE based plastics...

Is there a reason to avoid a traditional mechanical lamination structure?
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Patrick
Wed Feb 01 2017, 10:15AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Carbon_Rod wrote ...

Is there a reason to avoid a traditional mechanical lamination structure?
Not sure what this means. text books just show a simple diagram.

when I came back from work it was dry and flat like normal.
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Carbon_Rod
Wed Feb 01 2017, 07:37PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
This covers the general idea of a pile, but does not include documentation about coolant manifolds.
Link2
Link2

The stack up is usually made of many cells bolted together into a single block to get the low cell voltages up to usable levels.
Link2
Local units that were tested on buses (later converted back to diesel due to operational costs) used relatively thin H2 fuel distribution manifolds that looked similar to water-jet cut stencils.

Also, recall most stainless includes different percentages of nickel (a catalyst itself under some conditions), and often 316L is more corrosion resistant than the common 304 style grades (that can get rust spots more easily if the oxide layer is damaged, or galvanic corrosion occurs with other contacted metals). I don't think it should pose a problem for your set-up, but it should be documented somewhere if these are going to be used long term.

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