Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 23
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
No birthdays today

Next birthdays
05/11 ramses (16)
05/11 Arcstarter (31)
05/11 Zak (15)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

Propeller Physics and VABs Program.

Move Thread LAN_403
Ash Small
Wed Feb 04 2015, 09:50PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Patrick wrote ...

yeah but the mass of the tip integrated over radius matters for effciency of spool up and down, as we do that continuosly for stability.


The mass of the whole prop should be kept to a minimum, not just the tip wink
Back to top
Patrick
Sat Feb 07 2015, 11:45PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Ive got the 2nd layup it looks good and bad.

First the torsional strength looks exceptionlly good.

but... the span-wise flex is terrible. so im thinking 2 layers of uni-driectional 1k, then diagonal 45x45 degree layup.
Back to top
Ash Small
Sun Feb 08 2015, 01:52PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Patrick wrote ...

Ive got the 2nd layup it looks good and bad.

First the torsional strength looks exceptionlly good.

but... the span-wise flex is terrible. so im thinking 2 layers of uni-driectional 1k, then diagonal 45x45 degree layup.

Torsional strength needs to be good to ensure the blade angle remains constant.

Some span-wise flex is permissible. On full size 'copters the rotor sags a bit at rest, etc. Centrifugal forces may actually help a bit here wink
Back to top
Ash Small
Mon Feb 09 2015, 12:32AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I guess the way to simulate what we want is to use something like those spring things that fishermen use to weigh fish to apply a force upwards to the blade tip, at least as far as static measurements go.
Back to top
Patrick
Mon Feb 09 2015, 03:40AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Ash Small wrote ...

like those spring things that fishermen use to weigh fish to apply a force upwards to the blade tip, at least as far as static measurements go.
I was thinking the same thing! and hub to tip pulling.

Ill layup a new flat soon.
1423453228 2431 FT167327 Cf1

1423453228 2431 FT167327 Cf2

1423453228 2431 FT167327 Cf3
Back to top
Patrick
Sat Feb 14 2015, 08:12AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Ash, im wanting to commit to a airfoil cross section from root to tip. Typically the pitch is defined by measurement at 75% radius. But Im thinking we might change the pitch/AOA from a normal prop to our prop, from the root to tip more aggressively.
Back to top
Ash Small
Sat Feb 14 2015, 02:04PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I guess our starting point is the NACA 0012, as used by Bell.

Once we know how much CF to use, we have the chord length. This then gives us the AOA for each section at hover. (from 'thin airfoil theory')

This is where the 'fun' with XFOIL will start.
Back to top
Ash Small
Wed Feb 18 2015, 01:13AM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Maybe we should be trying to produce a NACA 0012 profile with 1 5" radius for spring balance evaluation?
Back to top
Patrick
Wed Feb 18 2015, 01:32AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Ash Small wrote ...

... a NACA 0012 profile with 1 5" radius ...

do you mean NACA 0012 from root to a 15" tip?
Back to top
Ash Small
Thu Feb 19 2015, 04:46PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
think so, yes, pretty much. Same as a Bell, as a 'starting point', at least.

Once we know how much CF we need to use, we know the chord length (or we can calculate it), then we just need to work out the angle of attack for each 'section', to obtain hover ar 4000 RPM, or whatever the figure decided was for the bottom end of the drag bucket.

Once we know how much CF we need we can try inputting some meaningful data into XFOIL.

EDIT: I'll try and look up the 'forces in a beam' thing this weekend, I need to refresh my memory, but I do remember it's pretty simple stuff.
Back to top

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.