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Ben

Thu May 11 2006, 04:39PM

Vigilatny
Registered Member #17 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:47PM
Location: NL
Posts: 158

I agree that linux is an awful bitch to get to work sometimes, but I don't like the suggestions Eric Raymond gives either. I don't want my computer automatically searching nor do I want it disabling choices for me. Perhaps I want to set up the computer for a network I'm not on...etc.

So the difference to me is, linux will always work if you really want it to, where as windows will work really quickly and easily....if it works.

Carbon_Rod

Thu May 11 2006, 09:57PM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

The â€œWPA keyâ€ is not fool proof (nor kid proof after a time as NetStumbler had some interesting helper-programs that are not generally reported in the mainstream.) Kerberos with a virtual TCP over IPX proxy (static DHCP list only.) with a VPN network on top can be much better. Novell makes money for a reason. Also lowering the broadcast strength requires individuals to get close enough to spot. WHAX is a neat live CD that is specialized for wireless leak testing.

I donâ€™t like the grc guy too much â€“ tries to tell people he discovered the packet runt (years too late.) Does he still publicly hype this with the testing software? Ha ha ha -- what a character. But I do respect some of his placebo utilities for legacy hardware (mostly how he went about the design.)

As for passwords -- there are verification routines that monitor how you type too (a failed login even with valid data.)

Cheers,

Simon

Fri May 12 2006, 02:35AM

Registered Member #32 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 08:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 549

Ben wrote ...

So the difference to me is, linux will always work if you really want it to, where as windows will work really quickly and easily....if it works.

Well put.

You could also paraphrase the "GUIs make simple things simple and complex things impossible." Except it's not strictly impossible, just a lot of work.

Try using a typical Microsoft application to take everything in a document surrounded by * (as in "I *love* regular expressions") and surround them instead with <B> and </B> ("I <B>love</B> regular expressions"). You've got a day's work ahead of you. In *nix, you can just use a simple sed command - if you know how to use sed.

Bjørn

Fri May 12 2006, 06:19AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

I agree that linux is an awful bitch to get to work sometimes, but I don't like the suggestions Eric Raymond gives either. I don't want my computer automatically searching nor do I want it disabling choices for me. Perhaps I want to set up the computer for a network I'm not on...etc.

There is no universe where making a simple setup program has to cause any problems (even if it frequently does). It is a matter of providing documentation of all parameters that needs to be configured and a set of autodetect buttons that also document what they are autodetecting and when they are useful. The "wizard tree" should be set up so that if you want to do something that is not covered you get a list of the commands you need to use and up to date documentation on how the commands work. At the end of it all there should be a simple report/test option.

The last *nix insanity I had to endure was to get X to work on FreeBSD.
1. The documentation promised that the files should be on the HD (they were not).
2. The friendly program to get the files off the CD needed frequent resets and used 5 hours to load the files off the CD.
3. The commands promised in the documentation did not exist.
4. The commands that did exist did not take the same parameters.
5. Starting X resulted in a display of random dots that needed a reset.
6. The documentation for configuring the hardware was not correct.

It all took two days and makes buying Windows XP a sensible alternative. Luckily Linux usually does not require two days to set up basic configurations but there are still many traps to fall into that are completely needless. It is not because it is the best solution but because it was the simplest way out for the developers.

The alternative? Look at Oberon where the documentation is the setup program, you can execute commands directly from the document and edit the parameters as needed. Then add some ideas from Wiki and a big sign saying "No Cargo Cult documentation allowed!".

Simon

Sat May 13 2006, 12:19AM

Registered Member #32 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 08:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 549

Getting X to work took some effort for me, too, but strangely I had none of the problems you listed.

FreeBSD is great, but it's not the instant noodles kind of OS.

Hellmark

Sat May 13 2006, 10:11PM

Registered Member #189 Joined: Thu Feb 16 2006, 07:43PM
Location: Winfield, Missouri, USA
Posts: 46

the nice thing about *nix is that while you can have a nice GUI manage stuff for you, if there is something that is difficult to do using that GUI, you aren't forced to have to use the GUI. You have the best of both worlds right there, letting you pick and choose what you want.

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