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Inorganic life?

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Conundrum

Sun May 02 2010, 08:50AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059

Extremely interesting idea:-

If silicon-silver memristors are possible in nature then other elements that are
photoelectric such as gallium nitride, gallium arsenide etc *may* enable a form of life that
evolved along the same lines as photosynthetic cells 4Bn years ago.

in this case slow evaporation of water over time could concentrate the elements into a form
that spontaneously self organises into a self-sustaining cellular structure very much like
we believe carbon based life originated.
however the principle difference is that this could occur under conditions totally hostile
to carbon based life such as extreme temperatures and pressures (over 100C) where water is
still liquid but in a superheated state.

the basic structure could in fact resemble a crystal with the points consisting of gallium
nitride (photocells) and the deeper structures silicon-silver, with the interconnects made
of various types of silver nanoparticles.
once generated the crystal could potentially repair itself if damaged by regrowing the outer
regions from the dissolved elements in the water.

the internal structure could also reconfigure itself using the memristor effect, so there is
voltage flow in a coherent pattern consistent with storing energy in regions where two
conductors are parallel (such as the outer and inner core of a nanowire) separated by a
dielectric such as barium titanate (BaTiO3) or silicon dioxide.

in principle even though the crystals could not directly reproduce they might be able to
organise conditions for natural growth of further crystals such as a "seed" of correct
configuration released from the outer edges.

the presence of memristors within the crystal's core may then enable them to "remember"
environmental conditions, allowing scheduled dormancy to avoid permanent damage and
generating seeds when conditions are good.

If there are strong winds, earthquakes etc then the seeds could end up spread over a
wide area and "take root" wherever conditions are good.
as the basic structure is inorganic the normal degradation mechanisms for organic seeds may
not apply so one seed could colonise the entire planetary surface given time.

in theory (speculating wildly here) an inorganic memory could form the foundations for
intelligence, as light generated by voltage differences within the GaN outer layers could be
received, processed, then transmitted after a time delay to other crystals within range much
like the neurons in an organic brain work.

even though the range might be limited to a few tens of feet, the same signal could spread
over a wide area like the "synchronised flashing" of fireflies.

any ideas, criticism etc welcome.

inspired by a recent ST:TNG episode "Home Soil"

-A

"Bother" said Pooh, as his 10TB SSD got "Mem-Rot"....

Proud Mary

Sun May 02 2010, 10:11AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Tobacco mosaic virus crystals have been shown to re-assemble themselves even when the virus has been broken down into its constituent proteins and nucleic acids, completely separated from each other. When these are mixed together again, the virus re-assembles into its crystalline form.

The Science of Self Assembly
J.A. Pelesko
University of Delaware
Department of Mathematical Sciences
Newark, DE 19716

Conundrum

Sun May 02 2010, 12:13PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059

very interesting Proud Mary.

this raises the possibility that life may have started in this way, when just the right combination of amino acids was present...

-A

Proud Mary

Sun May 02 2010, 04:06PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Didn't someone do a famous experiment donkey's years ago in which a mixture of gases like methane and ammonia were circulated through a spark chamber, and find that amino acids were produced in a sort of primordial soup?

It's not a subject I know anything about - even the idea that some viruses are crystalline is mysterious to me, and I'm not sure if they meet the criteria for being 'alive' (if this has been defined at all) or not. A self-replicating poison needn't be 'alive,' need it?

Pelesko's statement that "every self-assembling system consists of four key parts: particles, a binding force,
a driving force, and an environment" would also apply to your 'inorganic life,' would it not?

PS Added later: Haven't chemosynthetic bacteria been discovered around black smokers, organisms that obtain their energy from H2S?

Bjørn

Sun May 02 2010, 04:34PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

The Miller-Urey experiment in 1952:

A computer virus replicates itself but I don't think anyone sensible cosider it to be alive. Beyond that it all becomes a bit more complicated. It is easy to point to something that is alive and to something that is not, but it is hard to draw the exact line that separates them.

The Blind Watchmaker

has some ideas about crystals and primitive life forms.

It is possible that experiments of this kind need a 100 000 000 km^2 test tube and experiments lasting millions of years to arrive at a conclusion. In that case it is quite tricky to replicate them.

Conundrum

Sun May 02 2010, 06:29PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059

hmm...
now, interestingly the synchronised flashing of many millions of these crystals *might* be detectable from orbit..
is it worth asking NASA nicely if they can make public the raw data available from the Venus Express probe just in case something is lurking within the data ?

-A

Bjørn

Sun May 02 2010, 07:10PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

You can find lots of raw and processed data from both ESA and NASA. One place to look would be here

They generally like to have the first go and then release the data after a couple of year.

Conundrum

Sun May 02 2010, 07:28PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059

cool, thanks.

the guys on hvcomm were kind enough me to furnish me with a graph which shows that at 90 atmospheres the boiling point of water could exceed 280 Celsius.

So in principle water (albeit supercritical) could exist on the Venusian surface, near the poles.

-A

wylie

Mon May 03 2010, 05:01PM

Registered Member #882 Joined: Sat Jul 07 2007, 04:32AM
Location:
Posts: 103

It is possible that experiments of this kind need a 100 000 000 km^2 test tube and experiments lasting millions of years to arrive at a conclusion. In that case it is quite tricky to replicate them.

So the universe is just a very large petri dish, for scientists who realized they just couldn't make life on the benchtop?

Steve Conner

Mon May 03 2010, 06:41PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Yes. Douglas Adams had something along similar lines in the plot of his Hitch Hiker's Guide.

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