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The Biggest Lesson to be learned from Global Warming . . .

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Desmogod

Tue Mar 28 2006, 02:43AM

Registered Member #139 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 11:01AM
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 358

williamn wrote ...

The Earth is literally swimming in the stuff. It just so happens alot of it is in countries with questionable goverments.

Really, there is that much oil in the US?

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Tue Mar 28 2006, 03:06AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Okay...let's just pretend for a moment that I, the American in So. Ca. is to blame for pollution, driving my GMC Jimmy with a catalytic converter and keeping it tuned up.

What does that say for the illegals that drive BLUE fuming trucks and 2-stroke leaf blowers which choak me every time I get near them. Hell, since our front door in our town home doesn't have a seal around it, I can SMELL the exhaust whenever one of those things is close!

Oh, have any of you ever been to an anodize facility. Do you even know how much Nitric Acid they use and how much Oxide they release into the atmosphere!! Yea, all your green ideas put to waste by one anodize facility, and in spades!!

You want to know what's really bad. Just look at anyone processing Titanium. They use Nitric-Biflouride on an almost daily basis, and by the way, we call the cleaning tanks BROWN tanks.

Desmogod

Tue Mar 28 2006, 03:12AM

Registered Member #139 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 11:01AM
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 358

I have spent many years in mining and oil&gas, and some of the work practices leave a LOT to be desired.
Dump leach/heap leach operations IMHO are some of the worst acts you can perform. First you blow dirty great big scars in the land, and then you you Cyanide in the case of gold, or sulphuric in the case of copper to leach the metals into the solution. This causes so much pollution it's not funny. Standing in the electrowinning shed and seeing the mist rising from the cells is not a comforting sight.

But OTOH, I like my copper cables. No single person is to blame, it's just human nature to be unable to see past our noses.

williamn

Tue Mar 28 2006, 03:27AM

Registered Member #55 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:56AM
Location:
Posts: 149

What does that say for the illegals that drive BLUE fuming trucks and 2-stroke leaf blowers which choak me every time I get near them. Hell, since our front door in our town home doesn't have a seal around it, I can SMELL the exhaust whenever one of those things is close!

I live in Houston and know exactly what you mean.

Really, there is that much oil in the US?

I knew that was comming !

We do have alot of oil, but many enviro extremests groups here wont let us drill for it. What I always like to tell my pinko friends when they bring up the whole killing/scaring the Earth crap is: in a few hundred million years there will be no evidence we even existed, Some other civilization will be drilling for our asses. Those hippies love to hear they will tun into a fossil fuel one day.

In case you couldnt tell, I am a rightwing nationalist hardliner.

WaveRider

Tue Mar 28 2006, 08:42AM

Registered Member #29 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 09:00AM
Location: Hasselt, Belgium
Posts: 500

According to the US DOE

, the energy to generate one unit of GDP in the US and Canada is about double what it is in Europe and Japan. I think there can be a lot of money to be made in the US helping industry and individuals be more energy efficient without the need for more power plants.

I must admit, as someone living in Europe...I was shocked at the almost casual waste of energy I witnessed during a visit to the States. 14kW/hr a day would break the banks of most European families! For example, in my house, we average 2.0kW/hr a day for electricity (mainly for the fridge and lights) and perhaps 1-2kW/hr for hot water and cooking (gas). We heat our house with an efficient wood-fired stove.

Even the Chinese will eventually reach the point where energy efficiency will begin to pay off for them. Dotting the landscape with N-plants is expensive and locks the energy economy into a centralised production system that brings its own economic, political and environmental risks. There is no single energy source that will save us... we need a flexible, creative approach that weans us off an almost exclusive use of fossil fuels. I, personally having applied renewable energy in my daily life, would like to see it take up more of this challenge in the future of our world.....

Bjørn

Tue Mar 28 2006, 10:56AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

This thread does not meet the standards that we strive to achieve here at 4HV. We pride ourselves on being a great community, full of people who get along and interact in a professional, intelligent manner.

Here are some rules that has been broken or disregarded:
A. Be respectful
B. Don't be vulgar
C. Be clear and concise... If you have a problem with spelling, spell-check your posts.
D. No trolling
H. Don't use the chatting board as a crutch

Steve Conner

Tue Mar 28 2006, 11:48AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Whee, the thread is still unlocked!

williamn: I think you are quite right. According to the Gaia hypothesis (and yes I know it's unscientific and untested but i like it anyway) everything we do to the environment just rebounds on us. So if we use up all the resources and pollute things, poof! We just go extinct and the earth carries on without us. It's amusing to think of the extreme weather and rising sea levels caused by global warming as a first attempt at washing the plague of pesky humans off the face of the earth.

Ben: Where is this magical anti-crashing technology that comes pooping out of the combatants' asses? i assume you're talking about nuclear power as an offshoot of the atom bomb program, and more generally, about war as a catalyst for development? I don't buy it, but that's probably just my personal prejudice. I think military technology is fundamentally different to the kind of technology that we need to use energy in environmentally friendly ways. Uber hippy Amory Lovins liked to draw a distinction between "hard" and "soft" energy, and military systems are pretty hard, since they're designed to destroy things with concentrated energy of a very high thermodynamic temperature.

Madgyver

Tue Mar 28 2006, 02:15PM

Registered Member #177 Joined: Wed Feb 15 2006, 02:16PM
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 214

... wrote ...

There are some individuals that try to go off the grid, or at least use alternative forms of energy to have a lower net or even negative power consumption, but it is really not cost effective yet.

That info is obsolete. There is a village here in germany, doing a pilot project by powering there houses entirely by solar power. So far, they were able to achive equilibrium in consumption and "production". And that is in a cloudy country, like germany!
This also pays off, because actually they are using grid power and resell their solar energy to the supllier. The supllier has to buy it back, at a higher price then he is selling it. This is defined by law.

It is a little bit ridiculous, but thats the way how they are trying to push solar power here.

HV Enthusiast

Tue Mar 28 2006, 02:30PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

Really, there is that much oil in the US?

I knew that was comming !

In case you couldnt tell, I am a rightwing nationalist hardliner.

[/quote1143556111]

Good to see that 4hv isn't completely made up of liberals. And those extremist environmentalist groups that want to save all the happy trees in the Northwest to help save some stupid spotted owl don't think about all the families they would be screwing by putting their parents out of work (lumber industry, etc...) But this is offtopic, so on with global warming . . .

Chris Russell

Tue Mar 28 2006, 05:41PM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

Wow, I really expected more out of a thread than the same old recycled information and arguments that I can find anywhere else. Let's all try to keep it civil, ok? Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, even if they have the unmitigated gall to support a different political party, or live in a different country.

Global warming a crock? Maybe, maybe not. Sure seems like something is happening, though. All the old timers in this town can remember that every November, there used to be an ice skating rink set up on the river. Now it's been years since the river was iced over enough to walk on, even in January and February. Similar changes are happening everywhere, it seems. If this isn't happening due to man-made global warming, I'd sure like to see an alternate explanation that has some evidence to back it up.

Steve Conner wrote ...

williamn: I think you are quite right. According to the Gaia hypothesis (and yes I know it's unscientific and untested but i like it anyway) everything we do to the environment just rebounds on us. So if we use up all the resources and pollute things, poof! We just go extinct and the earth carries on without us. It's amusing to think of the extreme weather and rising sea levels caused by global warming as a first attempt at washing the plague of pesky humans off the face of the earth.

Steve, I think the not-so-amusing part is that it's the people in undeveloped nations, many of whom aren't even using electricity or cars, will be the first to start dying. If this is the Earth's attempt at stopping a "plague," it seems like the Earth's immune system could use a little fine-tuning.

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