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Registered Member #690
Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616
What do you use a permanganate/epoxy mixture for? And isn't the KMnO4 and Glycerine mix supposed to be good for igniting thermite? From the looks of the video is seems fun enough by itself...
Registered Member #261
Joined: Mon Feb 27 2006, 12:34AM
Location:
Posts: 22
Yeah, it ignites thermite, but really, there are better ways to go about it IMHO. The leftovers contaminate the thermite and it is messy. Permagnate stains like none other (exept for nitrophenol diazo derivs, which have yet to come off of my countertop, 3 years later).
It is a fun mix. I just aquired a lot of sodium, so I will be preparing some sodium peroxide which tends to ignite on contact with fuels. Fun fun fun for everyone.
Almost forgot; permagnate and glycerin is fun, but manganese heptoxide is that much better. Permagnic acid anhydride, Mn2O7, the stuff is truely the devil. Prepared by dissolving KMnO4 in concentrated H2SO4, I will post more about it later, but belive you me, it is truely awsome.
Registered Member #8
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 04:34AM
Location: Harlowton, MT, United States
Posts: 214
Mn2O7 is a highly unstable and explosive compound, which is to be made and used very cautiously at one's own risk. It explodes if heated to 55C so don't even think about trying to distill it. You really need to mention such points when apparently suggesting the use of such a compound. Even though this information is available to anyone who looks for it, you can't count on people doing that, and this substance is no joke.
Registered Member #261
Joined: Mon Feb 27 2006, 12:34AM
Location:
Posts: 22
Distilling it would be a bad, bad, bad idea indeed. Mn isn't meant to be stable in such oxidation states, what goes up must come down!
Oxygen-containing acids condensation products stability is inversely proportional to the acid strength. That is, HClO4 and HMnO4 (both very scary in their own right, stability issues and first acid constants of about 10^8) condense to form large molecules (Cl2O7, Mn2O7) with serious difficulty. H2SO4 can be condensed to form H2S2O7, phosphoric acid forms loads of condensation products in solutions. But I digress, point being, Mn2O7 in any form is not stable!
Mn2O7 prepared by dissolving permagenate in conc. sulfuric acid is not pure; it is in sulfuric acid solution. It will seperate as oily, green drops, but they are still not pure. Brauer outlines the production of pure Mn2O7, 2 eq. KMnO4 (crystalline, ultra-pure for obvious reasons) and 2 eq. H2SO4. Add KMnO4 over a period of 15 minutes to form a slurry, cover and set aside overnight. Solids will form and the Mn2O7 oil is gently kneeded out of the formed stuff with a mortar and pestle... sounds scary!
The stuff decomposes into MnO2 and O3, if you do not cool the former reaction or add slowly enough, purple fumes will evolve into a volcano of porous brown MnO2 and O3.
Really though, it is a very amusing -if not highly dangerous- novel explosive. Drips on kleenex is a personal favorite...
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