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resonance energy storage experiment

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LAN_403

Sulaiman

Tue Jul 23 2019, 05:11AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

The upper (p-ch) and lower (n-ch) drains are not connected and the upper diodes are wrongly connected.

I prefer the circuit in the last link that I posted above.

Plasma

Sat Jul 27 2019, 04:07AM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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Posts: 268

Built a new test circuit, I'm finally measure 6 volt AC open circuit on the H-bridge , but from 20khz up to 41khz it adjust and is stable, try going over that the plug pack whines, and the frequency bounces around +-15khz .
Connected to the resonance circuit it reads 0 volt on the whole frequency range, peak detector reads zero.

Measure voltage from the top to the end of stage 3 of the series parts gets between 4-11 volt AC does that mean the 3rd stage sees 11v in the parrellel part?
Or would it be 6+11=17volt ?
Measuring across parallel parts still reads zero which I think its meant to.

155841

Plasma

Mon Jul 29 2019, 05:51AM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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Posts: 268

Slap head:) the 4069 I was using for timing and driving the gates is 520uA I was trying to get 1mA min,
I'm going to try the l6202 h bridge IC it only needs 10uA for switching, and gives some room to increase the voltage up to 36volt.
Might look at MOSFET drivers for later.

Plasma

Fri Aug 02 2019, 02:20AM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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Posts: 268

Test the timing bit, I used a 5 volt regulator and 20k fixed resistor with a 50k pot in series, with 100pF caps,.
Testing show 3.50v DC between the two signal pins, with 47khz to >98khz, and 51% duty cycle over the range.
I'm getting the l6202 IC next week to start trying the other stuff.

141113

Plasma

Tue Aug 06 2019, 11:27PM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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Posts: 268

Installed the H bridge IC , the DMM doesn't show much voltage unless I touch points with only one probe.
The parrelal part gets quite warm, the series one not so much....it has to have more power going through than the DMM reads.

Need abit of help the outputs from 4069 inverter is 1.7v, I'm not sure its enough for the bridge IC, spent a good hour on Google and I might have to adjust Vref .
I put a diode and cap on the bridge output, and it slowly climbed up to 7v DC,

Has anyone got a suggestion?

112103

Plasma

Fri Aug 09 2019, 06:12AM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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Posts: 268

Replaced the 4069 with 74c14 Schmitt inverter, the frequency range changed.
The series and parrelel circuit are 28 Z 50mohm with a Q of 560. Setting the frequency at resonance and measuring across the series part gets 2.4V shift ever side drops down to a low of 0.16V.

Adding a second stage and measuring from were the first one was measured shows 2.7V, measuring across both stages shows 3.0V AC. The second stage, has a smaller inductor larger capacitor.

The simulation got lower jumps with more stages, but each stage raised the volts.

The IC chip gets hot, I think because of the voltage drop, I plan to use this circuit to drive a H bridge, having four N channel MOSFETs 600V 15A.

The power supply is 9+9V 200mA. At resonance the series multiple the voltage, but the parrelel part limits the current, making the volts 14^2 / 0.025 line sourced current.

The idea is to have multiple stages were each parrelel part allows extra current through the beginning series parts, and isolated the parrelel part to late switch a short to extract the joules in it.

Plasma

Sun Aug 18 2019, 02:08AM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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Posts: 268

Got some 470uH chokes and 22nF caps for series parts, its about 140 impendence times current should be the voltage, measured at 0.465Vac.

Not quite sure what's going on, after 30seconds the frequency gets stable, its tuned to 49.9khz close to resonance.

Parrelleled the 12V plug pack should handle 2.5A. On simulation there's two frequency on the ossalscope .
The circuit has very narrow bandwidth, probably around 200Hz.if I hit the sweat spot min and max values are a lot different. I tried adding resistance to the series parts, of 12ohm didn't increase the bandwidth by much.

Fixed a problem with the bridge IC, forgot to add a resistor from the enable pin to ground, it works a lot better.
Tried putting 6 and 12 ohm across the third stage hoping to draw more current ,didn't really work much.

135635

Plasma

Mon Aug 19 2019, 02:48AM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
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After all this, found out both my 12V powerpluga are stuff, switched to 3 9V plugs.

Adding more stages only increased the voltage drop over two tank circuit parts, tried to fix that with below picture.
At resonance the voltage was the lowest, it increased moving away.

143900

Sulaiman

Mon Aug 19 2019, 04:06AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

a few personal opinions :

the filament lamp in series with the output is a good idea,
short-circuit protection with indication of current flow.

I think that you should use a half-bridge for your initial experimentation as this allows a fixed 0v reference for monitoring and measurements.

The maximum energy that can be stored in an L.C circuit is

(0.5 x L x Ipk^2) or (0.5 x C x Vpk^2), whichever is LOWER,
... there is no way around this.

As I mentioned earlier, you need as little resistance in the resonant circuit as possible to reduce power loss due to heating,
this requires a high 'Q' circuit,
which by definition means that the bandwidth will be VERY small.
Due to the tolerances of your components, each section will not be (series- or parallel-) resonant at the same frequency.

I would start with a much simpler resonant circuit ...
from the (half-)bridge output to the resonant circuit use a capacitor to connect to a simple resonant circuit consisting of
(a selection of) capacitors in parallel with (a selection of inductors in series)
beware of high voltage across the resonant circuit.
At resonance the current supplied by the bridge will be much less than the current in the resonant circuit, by the ratio (Cseries) : (Cparallel)

Experiment with this simple configuration to determine the voltage and current (and VAR) limitations of your capacitors and inductors.
(too much voltage will destroy capacitors, too much current will saturate the inductors)
and proceed from there.

Plasma

Mon Aug 19 2019, 10:51PM

Registered Member #61406 Joined: Thu Jan 05 2017, 11:31PM
Location:
Posts: 268

Have been meaning to get a light bulb, from the last time, the bill was abit high something got left off the list.

When you say 0V refence the IC driver is a H bridge, wouldn't that be the same. I took a measurement from points on the circuit, and what all the power supplies use as ground, didn't change the value much, should I connect a capacitor to ground and one output from the IC, it might stuff up the bootstrap part?

Can you explain the capacitor connected to series inductor and parrellel capacitor, can't vislise it.

Do plan on building a external bridge, just money is delaying it.

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