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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Thermal and shot noise

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Ash Small
Wed Apr 25 2018, 05:26PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I disagree Hen. Any spike on a sine wave will be smoothed by a capacitor.

The voltages and currents involved are pretty low, too, especially at the input stage, and thermal and shot noise can both be issues in solid state circuits, in particular.
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radiotech
Fri Apr 27 2018, 08:20PM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
You mentioned audio. Audio circuits convey intelligence in bands people can hear.

Techniques to improve the sound using capacitors and inductance often act to
rid an annoying noise from a band where it can be heard.

Example, on a voice path you may wish to clarify 1000 to 2400 Hz,
whereas what happens below 400 and above 6000 is of less concern.

On the other hand if you were building a fuzz pedal, nose is your meat.
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Sulaiman
Fri Apr 27 2018, 10:18PM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
Ash Small wrote ...

Now, a new question about shot noise in particular..... I've a hunch larger wattage resistors will result in less shot noise for a given current.

Does anyone have any 'opinion' either way on this?

I do not KNOW the answer, but from working with ham radio stuff;
. I have never read of such an effect and if true I think that it would be known by now.

. the difference has mainly been between different resistor manufacturing techniques,
from memory;
carbon composition - carbon film - metal film in order of decreasing noise.
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johnf
Sat Apr 28 2018, 09:08PM
johnf Registered Member #230 Joined: Tue Feb 21 2006, 08:01PM
Location: Gracefield lower Hutt
Posts: 284
IMHO resistor type is more important than resistor size.
Carbon composition being the worst and metal film being the best.
In measurementsd i have done at UHF I can see the sifference in noise with a 51 ohm metal film cooled in liquid nitrogen and the same resitor @ 20 degree C so the major noise contributer was 4kTBR not shot noise
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Ash Small
Mon Apr 30 2018, 09:30PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I'm using film, metal film and wirewound resistors exclusively. virtually all are metal film or wirewound, except trim pots which will be replaced later with fixed resistors.

I'm getting some good results with low ESR capacitors.

I'm working on power supply smoothing at the moment, simulator says 1.6mA ripple @ 5A, with a five stage RC filter.
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radiotech
Tue May 01 2018, 05:24AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
Your 5 stage filter yields hum level 70 dB down. However unless you construct
your audio system with a balanced DC feed, your efforts will be skewered
by the 5 amp drop across printed circuit foils.

-70 dB hum can be heard, if someone cranks the level and sticks an ear
next to the cone.

Also wire wound resistors and capacitors have inductance, The Dyna 120
(classic solid state amplifier, circa 1970) wrapped a contra coil around the
capacitors to buck out the inductance.


1525152295 2463 FT181394 Dyna Capacitors With Contra Coils
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Ash Small
Tue May 01 2018, 01:34PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I'm not using circuit boards, it's all point to point.

Some through hole components will be on perforated boards, but will still be wired point to point.

Cap banks will have bus bars.

I try to parallel wire wounds where possible, to reduce inductance, and I eventually plan to eliminate them altogether.

It's a mono system.

I've read up a bit on balanced lines, but any useful links would be appreciated.
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radiotech
Wed May 02 2018, 06:32AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
Balances amplifiers fed from a bipolar power supply, means the loudspeaker
is fed with one terminal with positive going signal, while the other, a negative.

Link2
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