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4hv.org :: Forums :: Electromagnetic Radiation
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STRANGE EFFECT...

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Slava
Sat Nov 14 2015, 06:18PM
Slava Registered Member #518 Joined: Tue Feb 13 2007, 05:20AM
Location: New York
Posts: 168
This...

008

using a 1800pF cap, I tried 1 turn, 3 turns, 5 turns, 10 turns, 20 turns, 30 turns and 40 turns

... I want to optimize capacitor too. But it's too much work.
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BigBad
Sat Nov 14 2015, 06:33PM
BigBad Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600
If you want to maximum range you need high Q, keep the windings spaced well away from each other to minimise capacitance, and you want minimal spacer/insulation and for it to be low permittivity.

That's probably why you're losing range at high turns, q goes down, you're getting dielectric losses between the low and high voltage side of the coil as you squeeze more turns together.
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Slava
Sat Nov 14 2015, 06:35PM
Slava Registered Member #518 Joined: Tue Feb 13 2007, 05:20AM
Location: New York
Posts: 168
The reason high turns yields less is because...

1) inductors act like fly wheels, its hard to get the started and hard to make them stop

2) LC resonance frequency is lower
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BigBad
Sat Nov 14 2015, 06:49PM
BigBad Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600
Not sure. Lowering the resonant frequency probably shouldn't reduce efficiency, it will just ring at a different frequency. Usually the Q-factor is dominant regarding distance and that's normally more to do with dielectric losses and skin effect (skin effect improves at lower frequency).

Are both coils kept tuned, and to the same frequency?


edit: BTW type-002 and type-003 are really the same circuit, it doesn't matter which way you have the capacitor and inductor, that's why the curves are so similar.
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Slava
Sat Nov 14 2015, 07:01PM
Slava Registered Member #518 Joined: Tue Feb 13 2007, 05:20AM
Location: New York
Posts: 168
BigBad wrote ...

edit: BTW type-002 and type-003 are really the same circuit, it doesn't matter which way you have the capacitor and inductor, that's why the curves are so similar.

According to my data there is a difference between type-002 and type-003

...

I just tried using different capacitors for type-003 with a 5 turn coil... 470pF, 1800pF and 2200pF ... same results for all capacitors. This is good news, cause now I don't have to test everything a bunch of times for different capacitors... unless the ideal value is way out of range...
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BigBad
Sat Nov 14 2015, 07:21PM
BigBad Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600
I think the difference between 002 and 003 is only experimental error, once the arc strikes they're the same circuit.
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Slava
Sat Nov 14 2015, 07:22PM
Slava Registered Member #518 Joined: Tue Feb 13 2007, 05:20AM
Location: New York
Posts: 168
BigBad wrote ...

I think the difference between 002 and 003 is only experimental error, once the arc strikes they're the same circuit.

Try it and post your results...
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BigBad
Sat Nov 14 2015, 07:29PM
BigBad Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600
No, once the arc strikes it's an RLC circuit. It doesn't matter what order the components are in an RLC circuit; it behaves the same.
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Slava
Sat Nov 14 2015, 07:32PM
Slava Registered Member #518 Joined: Tue Feb 13 2007, 05:20AM
Location: New York
Posts: 168
BigBad wrote ...

No, once the arc strikes it's an RLC circuit. It doesn't matter what order the components are in an RLC circuit; it behaves the same.

Try the same experiment as me and post results. Both of us will benefit.

Link2

Also... don't use long wires to connect components, this will throw off results for coils with low number turns...
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Signification
Sat Nov 14 2015, 08:26PM
Signification Registered Member #54278 Joined: Sat Jan 17 2015, 04:42AM
Location: Amite, La.
Posts: 367
IMHO you're confusing the real world results with formulas & 'experiments' I'm confused...
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