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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Add your spot welder here

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Conundrum
Sun Sept 21 2014, 08:58AM Print
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Link2

Also see philpem's unit:
Link2

Notice the homemade-by-yours-truly electrodes!

Some ideas here: use less power but combine both approaches ie a capacitor to fuse the metal then an AC pulse to finish the job.

/me wants a pocket version of this ... smile

-A
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Thomas W
Sun Sept 21 2014, 10:21AM
Thomas W Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276
I've been thinking about why not using a few supercapacitors? they ought to work just as well.
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Conundrum
Sun Sept 21 2014, 11:18AM
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Philpem knows some people who tried this and found some capacitors are excellent but others can and will fail in this application due to inferior manufacturing.
The cheap "1F" ones have too high internal resistance and you'd need to use about 20 of them in parallel to get any useful current.
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hen918
Sun Sept 21 2014, 06:48PM
hen918 Registered Member #11591 Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556
I was looking at using Super-caps in my 45v (rewound)MOT power-supply (4 MOTs, 2 parallel, 2 series on the primary, 4 series on the secondary) I have some 600f caps but the internal resistance was so high, once I had put them in series, the resistance would have caused them to dissipate an unacceptable amount of energy, saying nothing about the charging current which would have been several hundred amps, blowing fuses and rectifiers all over the place.
Of course, if you have a peak voltage of less than 2.7v, the R(i) matters less, however you still get very high (and prolonged) charging currents
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Thomas W
Sun Sept 21 2014, 07:24PM
Thomas W Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276
Well these 2500F maxwell capacitors i have shorted out 4 in series and made the 50mm2 wire i was holding in my hand untouchably hot while the capacitors were stone cold. so i think that they are just fine :)
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Patrick
Sun Sept 21 2014, 07:28PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
i used to make ultra/super caps in high school, back in 1997 they were way to expensive to buy. but we learned the plates and the Helmholtz layer can still be destroyed in short circuits, seeming to be fine, later revealing a failed cap.


modern ones are better, but still its a roll of the dice if its not in the datasheets.








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hen918
Sun Sept 21 2014, 07:45PM
hen918 Registered Member #11591 Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556
Thomas W: hmmmm I'd like some of those! mine are nippon chemi-con, 5.5mR internal resistance. Yours will be about 1mR
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Conundrum
Wed Sept 24 2014, 06:11PM
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Interesting hack, putting a series limiter ie resistor and multiple capacitors in parallel.

I managed to do this once with CCFL inverters, while each would only output some 2KV at 12mA 8 in parallel would vaporize a steel pin!

See Link2
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hen918
Wed Sept 24 2014, 07:14PM
hen918 Registered Member #11591 Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556
Simple and effective technique, it's just not that efficient.
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Conundrum
Thu Sept 25 2014, 06:35PM
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
I calculated that in fact 18 off the shelf CCFLs with the gnd returns tied together with 2k2 balance resistors would with additional work (cough 2 stage CW inverting multiplier /cough) power a magnetron for my HTSC work.
Much easier to control, and instant on/off with no overshoot.

DIY 12V microwave would be cool although 18V@9A would be pushing the diddy little 2SD965s near their thermal limit with some heatsinks this would be just as reliable as the Panasonic inverter but 1/2 the size.

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