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4hv.org :: Forums :: Chemistry
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Fiber/Cellulose etchant substitute

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AndrewM
Wed Jul 25 2012, 08:22AM Print
AndrewM Registered Member #49 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362
Sodium bisulphate is commonly used to "burn out" cellulose fibers from fabrics to make fabric patterns with "cut outs"... ala: Link2

The process is generally to apply a sodium bisulphate solution, allow the water to evaporate leaving the fabric impregnated with the dryish bisulphate (monohydrate), and then heat which attacks the cellulose.

I'd like to find a substance that behaves identically, but is not hygroscopic. Reason being that the bisulphate is very hygroscopic and absorbs so much water even if well dried that, in the interim, the fabric acts damp and floppy and is difficult to maneuver. Any ideas?

I tried citric and oxalic acid on a lark - they do not have any appreciable action on the cellulose. Thinks like DAP (diammonium phosphate) seem like they might be promising, but are still at least slightly hygroscopic.
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IntraWinding
Thu Jul 26 2012, 03:51PM
IntraWinding Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581
How about using a dehumidifier in the room?
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Pinky's Brain
Thu Jul 26 2012, 06:19PM
Pinky's Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
How is the decomposition product supposed to attack the fibers efficiently without some solvent around?
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AndrewM
Fri Jul 27 2012, 07:22AM
AndrewM Registered Member #49 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362
Pinky's Brain wrote ...

How is the decomposition product supposed to attack the fibers efficiently without some solvent around?

I have no idea, but it works, no matter how much I dry the sheets.

For example, drying at 170F in the oven, OR spending a day under silica gel will take the fabric to a "bone dry" feel, however there is no difference in the degree that the cellulose is attacked in that state. I don't think those efforts are removing the water from the hydrate itself, but rather extracting the extraneous water that the hydrate apparently has an affinity for (perhaps its deliquescent?).

Regardless, I'd like something that doesn't do that, whatever that is. :)
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Carbon_Rod
Sun Jul 29 2012, 09:03PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, but paper sizing usually contains alumina.
I doubt even a superhydrophobic coating would prevent bleeding into the paper.
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