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Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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DC / AC transmission lines

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IamSmooth
Tue May 30 2006, 01:10AM Print
IamSmooth Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
I know that I asked this on the old forum so forgive me for asking again:

Forgetting costs of inverters and cable, why is high voltage DC transmission better than high voltage AC with regards to the least power lost?
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HV Enthusiast
Tue May 30 2006, 01:55AM
HV Enthusiast Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
For one, for a given size of cable and power level, losses are greater with AC than DC.
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Nik
Tue May 30 2006, 02:18AM
Nik Registered Member #53 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:31AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 638
With DC you dotn have to worry about being out of phase with another power grid.
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Jim
Tue May 30 2006, 02:36AM
Jim Dunce.
Registered Member #28 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 03:29AM
Location:
Posts: 76
Yes but with DC you must convert to AC before you are able to shift voltage levels.
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IamSmooth
Tue May 30 2006, 02:44AM
IamSmooth Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
why are losses for AC greater than with DC for the same voltage and power levels?
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...
Tue May 30 2006, 03:01AM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
This has been answered in several places before, you have less corona losses from a dc wire of the same voltage then of an AC one. It should also be noted that you loose some energy from capactitve losses when using AC lines.
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Wilson
Tue May 30 2006, 08:46AM
Wilson Registered Member #78 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 11:27AM
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 133
HV AC is affected by the skin effect, and electromagnetic induction. ie. current likes to travel primarily on the surface of the wire, while radiating out more EMR.
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Dr. Shark
Tue May 30 2006, 09:57AM
Dr. Shark Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711
I think EVR also has a valid stand here. Resistive losses go with the square of the current, so with the same RMS current, an AC line will suffer greater resistive losses.
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cbfull
Tue May 30 2006, 12:46PM
cbfull Registered Member #187 Joined: Thu Feb 16 2006, 02:54PM
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 140
Not sure about this, but I think that because AC current is a cyclic zero crossing voltage, when the voltage is near zero the resistive losses are greatest.
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...
Tue May 30 2006, 02:27PM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
Power companies have found a way around the skin losses, they use hollow conductors--so no gain there.

I also highly doubt that for a given current 1a at 60hz will cause any more resistance heating (ignoring the skin losses) then 1a dc, look up ohms law and what RMS has to due with it... If you drop 1v rms across the line it is the same thing as dropping 1vdc...

You have to think like a power company... You need to run a really long wire, that needs to carry a lot of power. You could use a piece of copper 10' thick and run it at 100v to minimise corona losses, but that would cost too much. So you realise that if you run at say 100kv you only need a piece of wire that is 3" in diameter (but with a .1" wall) --but you are going to loose some energy to corona losses. So you have your engineer runs the calcs and find out that it is cheaper to take the losses due to corona, and use less copper. So then you are wondering if you can squeeze any more efficiency out of your wire, and realise that dc lines have less corona than ac ones (from wikipedia--dc lines have 1/2 the corona losses compared to a ac system of the same length/power), and don't capacitively couple to the ground/other wires. So you run some cost analysis and find that buying the inverters will be cheaper than losses due to corona--but only for really long lines that have a lot of corona losses.
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