If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #190
Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
WHen a current flows through a wire a magnetic field encircles the wire. Imagine two wires each with one amp flowing through them: one is connected to a voltage of X and the other to a voltage of 100*X. Can anyone explain how the magnetic field differs between the two wires?
The reason for the question is this: Imagine two transformers with identical primary/secondary turn ratios but with different wire resistances. If the primary of thransformer1 has 10v @ 1amp and the primary of transformer2 has 100v @ 1amp, how do the secondaries "sense" the differnt voltages such that the output is 10x different for transformer2? I thought that the current travelling through the primary wire creates the magnetic field that cuts through the secondary to induce the secondary current.
Please don't quote that Vs = N*Vp. I know the basic theory. I am getting stuck on the physics behind the theoretic formulas.
Registered Member #32
Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 08:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 549
IamSmooth wrote ...
WHen a current flows through a wire a magnetic field encircles the wire. Imagine two wires each with one amp flowing through them: one is connected to a voltage of X and the other to a voltage of 100*X. Can anyone explain how the magnetic field differs between the two wires?
Certainly: there is no difference. The magnetic field depends purely on the current.
The turns ratio formulae can be derived by imagining the transformer coils share one magnetic field (i.e. perfect coupling - this is physics). The voltage induced in a coil is proportional to the amount of changing magnetic flux multiplied by the number of turns. Since the two share the magnetic field, that means the voltage induced in each coil is poportional to the number of turns, or the voltage ratio is the turns ratio.
The current is inversely proportional the number of turns because the current generates the field. The field is proportional to n x I so I is proportional to the field divided by n.
Registered Member #193
Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022
Life gets a bit more complicated when you start to look at the resistance of the transformer windings. The equation for V in and V out comes from assuming that no power is lost in the transformer. In that case the voltages have to be inversely proportional to the currents and the currents are related because they both related to the same magnetic field. More turns implies less current for a given field so the voltage is proportional to the number of turns. OK that's the easy bit. What happens when power is lost as heat? Well, the easy way is to realise that the primary can be modeled as a perfect (non resistive) transformer with a resistor in series with the primary. Then the voltage across the primary is due to the current and the inductance (Strictly, the reactance) of the primary. That current is limited by both the inductance and by the resistance so it's lower. With less current there's less field so there's less output.
I think the problem here is that you are considering the current in the primary of a transformer to be just a function of the resistance and the voltage. In fact, for most transformers the resistance is so low as to be forgotten about. The current depends on the load connected to the secondary.
If you had a perfect (superconducting) transformer and connected it to an AC supply the current wouldn't be infinite. With no load, the current would be given by the voltage divided by the reactance (omega L) of just the primary coil. The current and voltage would be 90 degrees out of phase and there would be no net power. Once you connect a load to the secondary coil then more current is drawn by the primary. The primary coil has to generate a back- emf that equals the applied voltage. To do that it needs some value for the magnetic field in the core. When you connect a load to the secondary a current flows through it and it produces a field which oposes the field from the primary. With a smaller field the back EMF at the primary no longer balances the applied voltage so the primary current rises until the balance is restored. At least, that's my picture of it. You might want to ask a physicist.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.