If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #1643
Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039
Maybe its my rig, maybe its something more in depth.
This is how I've done it in the past. This is how I do it now.
If I'm correct, both setups are 100% the same. Just different layout.
First, I've been told its OK to have the metal shells of the capacitors touch. Is this true? Because my new design allows them to make contact with each other.
The ONLY other thing, I can think of, as to why my arcs are acting shitty, is Weather. Is it possible, since its 28F outside, that the arcs will act different because arcs are hot, and its cold? I never had arcs that try to blow down and arc to the grounded shell of my MOT case. Lucky enough I use insulators, so it broke the arc.
Registered Member #2909
Joined: Wed Jun 09 2010, 12:31AM
Location: fort belvoir, Va USA ( south of DC)
Posts: 145
did you check if you caps hace internal diodes , some of mine have one inside of them test connection crom each contact to the case if one of the is grounded
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
pauleddy is correct. Some Microwave Oven caps have internal diodes and/or bleeder resistors that may be causing problems for you. Another thing to consider when attempting place hv transformers or caps in series is the breakdown voltage rating of the insulation. For example, I recall a young, inexperienced electronic experimenter on some forum (maybe 4HV?) asking if he can place 4 MOT's in series in order to get a total of 10KV output! Yes, he may get 10KV for a few millisenconds before an arc forms from one of the windings to the core of one or more of the MOT's. It sounds logical to be able to do this, but in practice it will not work due to the breakdown voltage rating of the MOT insulation. It was designed to handle 2500 VAC, NOT 10KV AC! Therefore keep this in mind when trying to tie together hv transformers and/or capacitors.
Registered Member #1643
Joined: Mon Aug 18 2008, 06:10PM
Location:
Posts: 1039
Yup. This dual stack has been linked for 2100VAC or so, and i have at least 2 in series to add up for that. I had this for awhile, and it never failed me.
My only possible guess is the wind. I understand how little wind can really screw an arc. But, I had the garage closed, I felt no wind at all. Yet, outside, it was extreamly windy. The only thing I can think of, is the wind pushing hard on the garage door, causing a change in room pressure, which caused my arcs to shoot down instead of up. Because when I drew these arcs, only 5 inches out, it usually arcs in a ^ shape until the breaker tripped. Well, it went straight down. like a V. And my insulators broke it before it could burn the acrylic.
guess I try again tomorrow and hope its not windy.
Is it possible the cold 30F air can effect an arc?
I did try redoing the bank, ripping it apart, and having nothing touch. It still sucked, because the arcs kept rushing down instead of up. Even when I tri to pull an arc up, it would break near instantly. Usually I can slow-draw it to 2ft. But i get 3" and it died. But if i pulled FAST, i got the 2ft.
{b]Update[/b]
I tried again today, no wind. The arcs do work a lot better. So i guess the pressure on the door did effect the room, even though I my self personally felt no draft. Was able to arc good on it, and the arc ended up shifting over, to the other terminal, and made a big loud BANG because the capacitors discharged through the arc xD Had this happen before, so I didn't think a capacitor failed.
Registered Member #3395
Joined: Thu Nov 04 2010, 08:42AM
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 193
Xray wrote ...
For example, I recall a young, inexperienced electronic experimenter on some forum (maybe 4HV?) asking if he can place 4 MOT's in series in order to get a total of 10KV output! Yes, he may get 10KV for a few millisenconds before an arc forms from one of the windings to the core of one or more of the MOT's. It sounds logical to be able to do this, but in practice it will not work due to the breakdown voltage rating of the MOT insulation. It was designed to handle 2500 VAC, NOT 10KV AC! Therefore keep this in mind when trying to tie together hv transformers and/or capacitors.
Yeah, MOT's are generally designed only to handle the voltage they generate but you can push it so that the insulation is insulating ~4kVAC (eg. in a dual MOT stack) but I was wondering if I could make a quad MOT stack, but under oil? With an output of 8kVAC, the oil should withstand it? If so, what kind of oil should I use? Or do I have to worry about it internally arcing, like in the actual winding? Does that happen? Feel free to correct me and tell me what's right...
Registered Member #2919
Joined: Fri Jun 11 2010, 06:30PM
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 652
Quad packs of MOTs in oil are doable, but messy. Use mineral oil or transformer oil if you want to do it. Alternatively, you can use a dual MOT stack with a doubler - less power, but no submersion needed.
Banned on 1/22/2011 for repeated rule violations after multiple warnings. Registered Member #3299
Joined: Sat Oct 09 2010, 08:11PM
Location: Bantown, USA
Posts: 220
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.