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Model Rockets and GPS Tracking

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Move Thread LAN_403
...
Fri Apr 14 2006, 12:45AM Print
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
Edit:
Because it appears that there are some people interested in the rockets that this GPS flies in, I have made a post (8 replies down) that goes into detail about their construction and the ground support equipment that is needed to make them fly. Title changed to keep things on topic wink

continued from here

So I tried 'scoping the power coming into the xecom modules, and the ripple was vary small (like 2mv), not that it would do any good since the xecom people refused to give me a ripple speck because it 'was very complicated'. So I built the clc filter outlined in the product manual, and the ripple stayed about the same. But then I tried sending some data out the link, and noticed that whenever the things starts transmitting it drops the voltage by ~.1v. (.6v of that being dropped across their 'filter').

So the project sat for another couple of months

Then for my birthday I got a maxstream xtend dev kit smile These modules also claim 20mi open/3kf suburban range, despite the fact that they have 2x the transmit power (1w) and 2x the sensitivity (-110db). Unfortunately I had to turn down the power to make it work off 3.3v (only .5w is supported) and the rx sensitivity (at the 115kb/s it is only -100db) so I was back to what the xecom's claimed. But these guys didn't have the range problem :) When I was trying them I had them at opposite sides of the house (where the xecom's barely connected) and they stated ~90% signal strength. So I decided they were a keeper, and made up a prototype
1144972843 56 FT0 Img 16671

(that is it without the modules/battery)

And when that worked, I designed up a board.

1144973143 56 FT0 Board

I will try to save the bloody details, but let me say that I started by installing eagle around 12noon with the intention of sending it to sparkfun to have it made, and at 4am I printed it out just to see what it looked like. Then in my sleep deprived lack of judgment I decided I would make it the first board I ever etched. And went to sleep.

About 4 hours later I awoke, and prepped a piece of Cu clad. Around 12noon I boiled 170ml of water, measured out 42.5g (NH4)2SO4, dawned the goggles and headed outside. About 10 minuted later I was here


1144973438 56 FT0 Board Etched


Then I grabbed my cordless drill and .1" hs steel drill bit and started murdering the board. (it was the best I could do, my next board will be drilled using a makeshift dremel drill press). Then I started populating the board, and after making a few major changes to the routing I was here (about 8:00pm now)
1144974449 56 FT0 Board Populated

So then I put it all together

1144974590 56 FT0 Board Finished


And the obligatory next to a coke can pic
1144974668 56 FT0 Img 1661


This was all finished last Thursday, but it was today that I finally got around to giving it a real range test. But the manual says 3kfeet in suburban, so with 1/2 tx power and 1/2 rx sensitivity, I would expect 1/4 that (~0.15 mile)
So on my way home from school I powered it up and got this map after I imported the data into topo!

1144974851 56 FT0 Map

(that red like at the bottom is .1mi) and did a measure from the furthest point to my house, and got .15 mile (actually I measured then calculated, and was very surprised when I got exactly the same number). This would suggest that it is 5mi open range. This should be plenty, since the rocket only goes 2mi (hopefully higher, but probably lower), and even it it does go out of range you just drive closer to it and once you get close enough the link automatically reconnects.

I should get a chance to launch it the third Saturday of June.

Some specks
weight-
w/ out battery - 2.99g
w/ 2A/hr battery that will give ~15 hours of tracking operation - 5.50g
size -
diameter - fits in a 1.5" tube
length - 2.7" long just the tracker, 9" long with battery/antenna
cost -
finished module- ~$200
total spent ~$700
range
suburban - 3kfeet
open - 5mi?
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...
Tue Jun 20 2006, 09:42PM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
I finally launched it amazed And it worked shades

You see, real Krogens spend fathers day out in the desert in the 110F weather playing with rockets and the dune buggy your dad traded for a wallpaper steamer 20 years ago that you got out there in the trailer you got for fathers day... In any case, the scorching heat didn't affect the launch too much, the only problems were that anything metal was too hot to touch and we had to put the N2O tank (for the hybrids) in a ice chest to get the pressure down below 1kpsi...

But the gps worked great... I got a chance to launch it in 'my brothers' (the airframe was given to him for christmas, I designed it, he assembled it, and I do the rest) rocket off a 328N/s motor and a 556 N/s motor, and I launched mine twice off my 1022N/s N2O/PVC hybrid motor. The gps lost lock at liftoff/landing (due to high G forces and emi from the ssnst we use to ignite the hypertek), but I got a ton of good data and proved the system works shades

Attached is all of the goods in excel format. If you have problems with them, let me know and I will try to get it in a format that works for you. There is a spreadsheet for each launch (the rockets labeled peter are my rocket which is a 4" diameter, 7' tall beast weighing in at about 10 lbs being powered off the 1KN/s hybrid, the ones labeled erik are my brothers which is a 1.5" diameter, 8' tall skinny thing that weighs about 5 lbs and was launched off a NH4CLO4/rubber composite the first of which was a 328N/s and the second was a 556N/s), the first column is the gps time in seconds since the beginning of the week, which is followed by long/latt/elev, which if followed by the speed, then by the gps health (the numbers are sorta meaningless in decimal format, generally the higher the better), then an empty column showing the end of the data from the gps. The next 3 are ones I made to make the data more readable (to me at least) which gives the altitude in feet above ground level, speed in mph, and the change in speed converted to G's (take these numbers with a few grains of salt, as the speed on the gps isn't really all that great at the high G events, which it would be interesting to know the value). The last column is comments I added. The ones that refer to parachutes and deployment are referring to the second parachute that deploys at 800ft agl to slow the rocket to a more reasonable speed (looking at the speed chart shows this quite clearly). There are 3 charts in each document that show the data in a graphical form. The last one is a composite of all the graphs overlaid on top of each other so you can see how performance changed with each launch. I did a little bit of shifting the data around to make the results easier to compare.
] 1150836875_56_FT7515_606_lauch_data.zip[/file]

This all corresponds quite nicely to what rocksim said the data should be. For my rocket it said the max speed should be 111m/s, the measured was 115m/s for the second launch (I think the that first launch was having some gps problems all around, all the data seems a little off, or the fill was bad, one or the other). The max altitude calculated was 2100ft, the measured was 2200. The max acceleration was calculated as 12.3g, I measured 11.8g. Pretty damn good suprised
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...
Sat Nov 25 2006, 05:15AM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
Not a SINGLE reply? What is with you people... I mean I have explosives, chemistry, electronics, wireless communication, heck there is even a little HV involved tongue

In any case, I just wanted to make note of the launch earlier today (even if it only for personal reference).

It didn't start out too good. We drove out, set up the pad, loaded the ejection charged, fired up the GPS, filled the N2O tank, fired, all looking good.
10 seconds later
'chute should be coming out about now...
5 seconds later
sh*t sh*t sh*t wizzzzbrrrrrr
5 seconds later
BOOM
(and I have GPS data to show that it was only a 20 second launch)

sorry no pics yet (still need to unpack the camera) but the nose cone made out of 1/8" think PVC just crumpled like an according and buried itself ~8" into the dessert rock-sand (anyone that has been to the Mojave knows what I mean, it is not quite sandstone but it is getting there). The tube shattered (almost all of it). The motor got shot out the back of the rocket ~12" (ripping a 1/4' birch plywood bulkhead that had been fibergalssed in). I believe that this occurred as the rocket crumpled and created a pressure surge when it impacted. The circuit board responsible for controlling the data completely shattered. Worst of all (because I wanted to use it later that day) was what happened to the GPS system. The (lithium ion) batteries were literally in a ball at the bottom (there was a 1/4" solid steel rod at the tip of the nose cone to keep the gps from sliding forward; it is now bent at a 30degree angle). The ceramic patch on the GPS antenna slid down 1/8". The metal shield around the GPS board was smashed pretty good, but the only damaged to the board was a few lifted traces where the connector was soldered on. (but it is enough damage that it will not fly again). That board that I slaved away to produce will never fly again either. I am thinking about framing it tongue A few lifted traces, the plastic on one of the caps is missing, a few busted out LED's, the connector for the maxsteam module dead. Fortunately the maxstream module survived! The antenna was wrapped up in a ball with the batteries, but I am pretty sure that it will indeed fly again (one of the 4 pieces that survived--the motor retainer ring, the motor (I think, need to pull out the tank and give it a good inspection) the maxstream module, and the charge canisters). I hope to find enough time to redesign the board to have some 'normal' senors (pressure/accelerometer) that will just be logged into a little flash memory that can be downloaded at the end of a flight (I only need the gps data realtime so that I can find the rocket afterward) Maybe during christmas, or possible even spring break again.

RIP Crazed II

Enough bad news...

Not to be discouraged we launched the small(er) rocket on the last conventional (Ammonium Perchlorate Composite -- 200g of it that burns in 2seconds) that I will get for a while (well, until my dad gets a LEUP). Because we had never managed to get the 'chutes to deploy properly, a complete redesign was in order. Instead of having a 'chute fire at apogee and one at 800' AGL we just had a chute that fired at apogee, and a charge connected to a 20 second timer in the same tube. This worked flawlessly, and it was dead calm so we decided to run the West Coast Hybrids (.com) J motor that I got 2.3 years ago (for the second time, the first time it exploded, so Scott send me a new ones, which sat until I had a rocket I could use it in). It was supposed to go about a mile, and possible hit mach. So I spent a while carefully assembling it (I wanted to make damn sure that it didn't explode again, I wasn't looking forward to building 2 rockets and a gps tracking system) and put it on the pad.

Opened the N2O valve, O2 tank, hooked up the NST... Walk back to the controller... Starting to form butterflies in my stomach... Press that arm key... Flip the N2O switch... Watch for the stream of N2O... Butterflies unbearable... Nice N2O cloud... 5-4-3-2-1... Hit BRB (big red button)... Nothing... Just the hiss of the O2. Sh*t. Well better than it exploding I guess wink

Pull motor apart, igniter wire isn't burnt. Hmm... Check HV, good... Check wire... Good... Put rocket back together. Fill, fire, nothing. Double sh*t.

Pull motor apart. Notice that all of the parts are freezing cold (actually colder than freezing, ice was slowly forming due to the sub 10% humidity). Only one reason for that; N2O leak. Pull floating injector out... All covered in sand angry Who put that in there confused Pull motor completely apart and clean. Reassemble. Fire. Nothing mistrust Getting pissed...

Pull motor out again, insides frozen, sun low on the horizon... Replace floating injector (I had a spare since the one from when the motor exploded was fine). It had damn better work now...

Open N2O tank... Start filling... 30 seconds later no plume. Out of liquid angry Switch out tank. wink Start filling... Nice plume... Push button... Get a little hiss. Start praying to the rocket gods that it works... Little smoke... There is hope... More smoke! Clouds and clouds of it! Why won't it leave the pad? Oh god, you are NOT going to blow up on me... BZZZZZzzzzzz Liftoff! amazed Yes! It worked! Hurray!

Unfortunately I didn't get much telemetry data, but the altimeter did tell me that it went 4738ft AGL. And I know that the timer was set to fire too early (I had it set for 20 seconds, but I am pretty sure that it went off when the rocket was still on its way up) and I only filled the motor at 700psi instead of the 900psi max.

Oh well....

If I get any interest I will update the post with the pics/telemetry data/videos. Heck, I would be happy to write a nice long thread about the rockets if anyone in interested...

Somewhat ironically I typed this post up while watching Titanic cheesey
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ragnar
Sat Nov 25 2006, 05:38AM
ragnar Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
Yeek! I have enough trouble stomaching my own failed electronics, let alone hours and hours (or days or weeks) slaved into electronics AND rocketry for it ALL to then crumple.

Can we see the data from the GPS? :P
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...
Sat Nov 25 2006, 06:39AM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
Just for you MattyB

It is in space deliminated format, importing into excel should give nice columns.

Sorry I didn't do it for you, I woke up at 6am and now is is 10:30pm after a day of launching rockets and I am getting a tab bit tired.

As to the whole seeing you work explode in front of you thing... It is just a part of the hobby ;) That rocket is getting old now (I got the original kit for my 13th bday, all that is left of it now is the motor retainer wink ). You see, the hobby is no fun if it works; you need to be alpha (or at least beta) testing something when you go out... It is worth if for that feeling right before you hit the button and the resulting BRRZZZZzzzzzz (that is actually what the hybrids sound like, they are unstable and have a sweet buzzing sound). The frosting of the cake is when it comes back down 10 seconds later and starts buzzing right before it makes that 8" crater tongue
]1164436794_56_FT7515_1124_cato.txt[/file]
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ragnar
Sat Nov 25 2006, 07:24AM
ragnar Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
ROFL (no offense) at Z-SPEED:


88.443916
75.483635
62.929573
51.853519
40.8461 95
30.410486
20.353968
0.839347 <-- parachute presumably [supposed to] deploy here at apex?
-7.930543 <-- or here?
-16.693798
-25.961449 <-- Sh*t...?
-39.604378
-44.088219
-52.834080
- 60.647758 <-- sh*t.. sh*t..
-68.202194
-75.275162 <-- sh*t sh*t sh*t.
-81.802979
-87.776779
-93.247856 <-- P*ss... **winces**
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...
Sat Nov 25 2006, 10:17PM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
Pretty much tongue

We only got the big(er) rocket on tape going up, so that wasn't all that eventful. Just a normal hybrid motor ignition.

The small(er) one was a bit more eventful at the takeoff, so here you go. It is in .wmv, hopefully you can all play it... If not pm me and I will find a way to get you a format you can play. They are 5mb a piece.
]1164491334_56_FT7515_movie_0002.zip[/file]
whole launch from me opening the N2O tank to when it goes out of sight.

]1164492956_56_FT7515_movie_0003.zip[/file]
the ignition sequence slowed down 4x and at a higher resolution

]1164493895_56_FT7515_1124_cato.zip[/file]
excell document with some graphs of speed and altitude

Some stills:

1164491431 56 FT7515 Rockets 1164491665 56 FT7515 Ready To Fly


the 2 big rockets up against out truck and the yellow one on the pad

1164492044 56 FT7515 Gps 1164491879 56 FT7515 Ready

The GPS getting satelites and inside the nose cone of the yellow rocket.


1164492044 56 FT7515 Computer 1164492212 56 FT7515 Reciever

The laptop doing the data logging and the reciever (don't want any sand in there)


1164492334 56 FT7515 Doh2 1164492334 56 FT7515 Nose Cone

Doh!
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Steve Conner
Sun Nov 26 2006, 03:26PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Excellent thread ...! You're obviously crazy about rocketry, and other members seem to like it too, so why not change the thread title to "Model Rockets and GPS Tracking" and we can discuss the rockets as well as the GPS dongle. Or if you'd rather, I guess I can move the rocketry part to the explosives forum.

... wrote ...

1164492334 56 FT7515 Doh2
sorry to hear the dongle got wrecked btw dead
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...
Sun Nov 26 2006, 07:26PM
... Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
Ok then, here we go...

A short history
I have been launching rockets with my family as long as I can remember (probably since '95 when I was 5 years old) and my dad had launched his share of them when he was a kid. Slowly the rockets got bigger/more expensive. First it was making them 2 stage, then 3 stages, then we started to go to bigger motors. First it was E's, then G's, now I am almost up to a K, but I would need a new certification to buy them. (if you are not familiar with the way these motors are classified, an B motor has 2x the total energy of an A motor, a C motor has 2x the energy of a B motor, etc. A G motor has about 100newton/seconds --or 25lb/s or 10kg/s-- of thrust).

There were 2 problems with the 'conventional' motors either made out of pressed black powder-BP (from 1/2A to an E) or ammonium perchlorate + rubber composite-APCP (from D to the solid boosters on the space ship). The first was that APCP is really expensive; like $100/kg. The second is that the ATF has (as of October 10) made it illegal to buy/transport any motor with >62.5 or propellant, unless you get a LEUP (like $100 a year, and you give up your 4th amendment rights, and you need to have a huge property to observe the proper distances). So most people had 2 choices, get out of HPR, or to not use explosives. Choice 1 isn't really a choice, so everyone had to find a way to not use explosives.

Luckily we were mid-adopters of 'hybrid motors'. Instead of simply burning a block of APCP or BP, it uses PVC as the fuel (lets see you regulate that ATF). But if you just light PVC on fire out in the open it burns kinda slow, not really great for making a rocket motor out of. So we needed to find a way to get an oxidiser in the chamber. What better oxidiser to use than pure O2? But it is hard to store pure O2 (we want about as much O2 as we need PVC). So we decided to use N2O (the same nitrous oxide used for racing cars). It was perfect; it dissociated into N2/O2 when in the intense heat of the combustion chamber, had a vapor pressure of 1,000psi so we didn't need a pump to get it in the combustion chamber, isn't a regulated substance, and is reasonably cheap (like $5 a lb).
note-- by 'we' I am referring to a large group of people that I was not really involved in. Just bought their working motor.


So that is where I am now.

I have 2 main rockets that I have been working on.

There is mine, who (as previously mentioned) was bought at the ROC launch on my 13th birthday. It was a Public Missiles (.com) Amram 4 (4 being the diameter of the rocket in inches) and as the name implies it was a scale version of an Amram missile.
At first this ran off a small I motor, but then we upgraded to a CPR based parachute deployment system. Instead of relying on the motor to give a blast to force out the parachute it has a small PIC based controller that uses a little altimeter to detect the apogee (apex) of the flight to eject a small (12") parachute, and then at 800ft AGL it fires a large (50") parachute. This prevents the rocket from drifting too far away from where you launched it. Then we upgraded to a large I motor, and then to a large J motor (we used the 54-1280 case because you could also use it as a part of a hybrid motor, however the company making the conversion kit stopped selling them). This got us to ~5800ftAGL. But it was expensive, $100 a launch.
That is where the hybrid came in.
At first we tried to use a West Coast Hybrids J motor, but it exploded on us. So we went out and bought a Hypertek, which worked flawlessly. And it worked flawlessly for many flights, until last Friday (11/24/06) when it didn't eject any parachutes and came down pretty hard.
In case you were wondering; it got the name Crazed because when we painted it (after adding the CPR) we put down a layer of white paint, then yellow fluorescent paint. This gave a very neat effect (you can see it if you look at the full size pics of the yellow rocket). It later got the nave Crazed II when the bottom exploded (see above link) and it was rebuilt.
I am thinking that crazed III will be made out of 2" tube and be lacking the canard fins. Just a 2" by 6' long yellow cylinder with a 1000n/s motor in it.

But since that rocket 'just worked' we needed a new one. So for Christmas my little bro (the one you see standing behind the green rocket in the videos 2 posts above this) got some tube and fins and whatnot, and I designed him a rocket. Then him/our dad built the airframe, and I hacked together a CPR wanabe parachute deployment system. Unfortunately it didn't work worth a crap, and after crushing a few feet of tube (that rocket was light enough that coming down ballistic only put a dent in it) I decided it was time for a complete redesign. And my new one works perfectly smile

So after getting the airframe working correctly, it was time to test out the WCH motor, and that is described in detail in an earlier post. Not quite perfect, but better than exploding wink

I will try to add some pictures after someone else posts. I try to keep my posts <10mb to keep Chris happy

BTW, in case you didn't find all of my videos in the thread, I have linked the folowing thunbnails to them:

1165032725 56 FT7515 Cato 1165032450 56 FT7515 Movie 0004 1165032450 56 FT7515 Mov002 1165032450 56 FT7515 Mov003
Crazed I exploding, and then working. Then the fast/slow versions of the green rocket
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Marko
Mon Nov 27 2006, 10:05PM
Marko Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145
I agree with steve, great stuff!

Too bad i'm such an aircraft-newbie like this!

I've read the archived thread and it sounded very interesting.ž
Regarding your buck converter, you can often find some nice (and small) converter chips on old motherboards, P1 and P2 like (new ones use large mosfets and multi-phase controllers for almost anything).
Anyways you shouldn't be getting that much voltage drop with such regulator.
If I get it, now you are using a 3V lithium battery as a power source?
Glad it works now.

Good videos also; You look big for a 16y old , from that I would think you are 20+ suprised
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