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What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?

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ScottH

Thu Aug 10 2017, 05:10PM

Registered Member #61373 Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 87

For instance: A Parallel MOT setup that puts out 2.8Kv and 2.75A will cause 3,780W of energy to be dissipated (assuming 500 ohm internal resistance arm to arm; HV burns through skin nearly instantly). I know that is a very large amount of energy, and I know it is far above lethal, but what will the damage be if such a thing happened?

I don't mean to be morbid, but I am genuinely curious about the effects of electricity.

Sulaiman

Thu Aug 10 2017, 06:04PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

It depends upon your luck/fate;

very small currents cause nerves to fire, causing muscle contractions or sensations of pain, heat etc.
currents in the milliamperes range can cause such upset to the heart that it looses its beat - fibrillation - lethal
higher currents for short periods stimulate most nerves, 5 senses + muscle spasms
could be lethal, could be used to jump-start the heart rhythm - defibrillation
even higher currents cause burns, vomiting so violent that your stomach empties into your lungs and you drown - or worse.

Neon sign transformers and oil burner ignition transformers limit current to 10 to 30 mA
Earth leakage circuit breakers trip in a similar range
so I guess that's what is considered survivable - usually.

If you have stored energy such as in capacitors, then you often can't easily limit the current.

I'm not qualified to give safety advice so do your own research also, it's worth it.
(due to legal liabilities, almost all sources will be over-cautious)

I believe that one person died from a 9v battery powered simpson multimeter on ohms range

and people have survived 25 kV ac, lightning etc.

So ... Do you feel lucky ?

(the older I get, the less lucky I feel, could be just age, or maybe wisdom

Conundrum

Fri Aug 11 2017, 05:20AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059

Quite right. I nearly got fatally shocked (needed medical attention) from 7 CCFL inverters wired in parallel.
See "High voltage sparkler experiment"..
Anything you do must have 2 levels of failsafes, ie a "buddy" trained in first aid and a mechanical button that shuts down if it isn't held down.
Ideally the whole setup should be in a sealed box and control panel has separate grounding to prevent dangerous RF leakage.

Sulaiman

Fri Aug 11 2017, 08:12AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

You see what age does to us ...

we older guys do not want less experienced members to electrocute themselves
it is bad for 4HV membership figures.

Most of us older members have heard of, seen or been involved in electric shock incidents, so appreciate the risks (usually).
I'm sure that we could have a bragging session about who has had the most/worst/luckiest/stupidest incidents,
it is interesting and informative but
it may make 'noobs' less cautious,
and we (I) would be revealing how stupid we (I) have been in the past,
and as we are survivours, we are also amongst the 'lucky'

On the other hand, it is possibly only those that take risks who progress ?

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Fri Aug 11 2017, 03:56PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA

No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.

And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".

Stay safe.

ScottH

Sat Aug 12 2017, 01:37PM

Registered Member #61373 Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 87

Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...

If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA

No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.

And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".

Stay safe.

That's a good idea. I need to get that much money to spare haha.

Kolas

Sun Aug 13 2017, 01:28PM

Registered Member #102 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:15PM
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 169

Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!

ScottH

Sun Aug 13 2017, 11:12PM

Registered Member #61373 Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 87

Kolas wrote ...

Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!

Been there done that haha. A hot dog won't use more than 400w out of the supply. The power consumed by it is almost like hooking up 120v to it, but quicker. A hotdog has about 40 ohms or resistance. 500 ohms would cause a much bigger voltage drop at 3A (about my power supply's max) so the wattage is much more.

I just mainly want to understand the thermal damage effects on the human body from my setup.

Justin

Mon Aug 14 2017, 03:26AM

Registered Member #46164 Joined: Wed May 07 2014, 08:16AM
Location: California, USA
Posts: 89

There are plenty of videos showing exactly what happens when this occurs, it isn't pretty.

DerAlbi

Mon Aug 14 2017, 05:53AM

Registered Member #2906 Joined: Sun Jun 06 2010, 02:20AM
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 727

Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.

"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the [EDIT]internet[/EDIT] the more future generations will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing

Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.

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