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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
<< Previous thread | Next thread >>   

What will 4,000 watts of energy do if I (theoretically) came into contact with HV, and got stuck?

Author Post
ScottH
Thu Aug 10 2017, 05:10PM Print View
Registered Member #61373
Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 84
For instance: A Parallel MOT setup that puts out 2.8Kv and 2.75A will cause 3,780W of energy to be dissipated (assuming 500 ohm internal resistance arm to arm; HV burns through skin nearly instantly). I know that is a very large amount of energy, and I know it is far above lethal, but what will the damage be if such a thing happened?

I don't mean to be morbid, but I am genuinely curious about the effects of electricity.
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Sulaiman
Thu Aug 10 2017, 06:04PM
Registered Member #162
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2820
It depends upon your luck/fate;

very small currents cause nerves to fire, causing muscle contractions or sensations of pain, heat etc.
currents in the milliamperes range can cause such upset to the heart that it looses its beat - fibrillation - lethal
higher currents for short periods stimulate most nerves, 5 senses + muscle spasms
could be lethal, could be used to jump-start the heart rhythm - defibrillation
even higher currents cause burns, vomiting so violent that your stomach empties into your lungs and you drown - or worse.

Neon sign transformers and oil burner ignition transformers limit current to 10 to 30 mA
Earth leakage circuit breakers trip in a similar range
so I guess that's what is considered survivable - usually.

If you have stored energy such as in capacitors, then you often can't easily limit the current.

I'm not qualified to give safety advice so do your own research also, it's worth it.
(due to legal liabilities, almost all sources will be over-cautious)

I believe that one person died from a 9v battery powered simpson multimeter on ohms range
and people have survived 25 kV ac, lightning etc.


So ... Do you feel lucky ?
(the older I get, the less lucky I feel, could be just age, or maybe wisdom
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Conundrum
Fri Aug 11 2017, 05:20AM
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: Republic of Guernsey
Posts: 3803
Quite right. I nearly got fatally shocked (needed medical attention) from 7 CCFL inverters wired in parallel.
See "High voltage sparkler experiment"..
Anything you do must have 2 levels of failsafes, ie a "buddy" trained in first aid and a mechanical button that shuts down if it isn't held down.
Ideally the whole setup should be in a sealed box and control panel has separate grounding to prevent dangerous RF leakage.

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Sulaiman
Fri Aug 11 2017, 08:12AM
Registered Member #162
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2820
You see what age does to us ...

we older guys do not want less experienced members to electrocute themselves
it is bad for 4HV membership figures.

Most of us older members have heard of, seen or been involved in electric shock incidents, so appreciate the risks (usually).
I'm sure that we could have a bragging session about who has had the most/worst/luckiest/stupidest incidents,
it is interesting and informative but
it may make 'noobs' less cautious,
and we (I) would be revealing how stupid we (I) have been in the past,
and as we are survivours, we are also amongst the 'lucky'

On the other hand, it is possibly only those that take risks who progress ?
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Hazmatt_(The Underdog)
Fri Aug 11 2017, 03:56PM
Registered Member #135
Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET FOUO
Posts: 1663
If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA

No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.

And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".

Stay safe.
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ScottH
Sat Aug 12 2017, 01:37PM
Registered Member #61373
Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 84
Hazmatt_(The Underdog) wrote ...

If you are curious, do yourself a favor, get a lab assistant and do the testing on him... HAHAHHAHA

No but seriously, go to the meat market and get yourself a pig.
You can test a pig as much as you want as an "analogue" and nobody has to have fingers BURNED OFF as a result.

And once your pig is bar-b-q'ed you can slather your favorite sauce on it and "go to town".

Stay safe.


That's a good idea. I need to get that much money to spare haha.
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Kolas
Sun Aug 13 2017, 01:28PM
Registered Member #102
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:15PM
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 167
Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!
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ScottH
Sun Aug 13 2017, 11:12PM
Registered Member #61373
Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 84
Kolas wrote ...

Hot dogs are often times good (cheap) pig analogues. ^_^
Just make sure it's made of pork!


Been there done that haha. A hot dog won't use more than 400w out of the supply. The power consumed by it is almost like hooking up 120v to it, but quicker. A hotdog has about 40 ohms or resistance. 500 ohms would cause a much bigger voltage drop at 3A (about my power supply's max) so the wattage is much more.

I just mainly want to understand the thermal damage effects on the human body from my setup.
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Justin
Mon Aug 14 2017, 03:26AM
Registered Member #46164
Joined: Wed May 07 2014, 08:16AM
Location: California, USA
Posts: 72
There are plenty of videos showing exactly what happens when this occurs, it isn't pretty.
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DerAlbi
Mon Aug 14 2017, 05:53AM
Registered Member #2906
Joined: Sun Jun 06 2010, 02:20AM
Location: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 533
Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.

"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the [EDIT]internet[/EDIT] the more future generations will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing
Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.
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hen918
Mon Aug 14 2017, 09:20AM
Registered Member #11591
Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 428
DerAlbi wrote ...

Havent read the thread, but i want to note that the thread title is extremely offensive to anyone with an educational background.

"Watts of Energy" are you kidding me ?
Either "Watts of power" or "joules of energy".
Sry.. but the problem is that people read this and such stuff sticks in their mind setting the basis for a completely fucked up mind set about units and physics in general. The more wrong stuff circulates the energy the more future generation will suffer. The fact that 5 people contributed to this discussion and no one notices such basic mistake is depressing
Next step is "A car thats as fast as 10 g" i guess.



Oh, I did, but I have already given up correcting ScottH.
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radiotech
Tue Aug 15 2017, 02:26AM
Registered Member #2463
Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1471
A coworker was drawing out a 2300 volt circuit breaker and came into contact with the
live bus system. He became stuck, because the current paralyzed him.

He was drawing out the breaker, so the workers (saw sharpeners) could apply locks
to prevent the saw from starting. So they were close to him when the accident happened.

One of them, gave him a flying kick to free him.

His hands were burned. Besides that, he was back to work soon.

An investigation revealed a freak cause. As a result all the breakers in the plant (about 75 of them),

were modified so this could never happen again.

A microwave transformer can burn you.


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