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Im thinking of getting a used electric car.

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Patrick

Wed May 31 2017, 07:45PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Here in the US im thinking of getting a used Nissan Leaf all electric car. I see EVs loose there value quickly and are sold at 20,000 miles, often for 9-11k$.

this makes me suspicious, i cant find any systemic quality problems that would chase people off, other than the few anecdotal cases of what may be just unhappy people. Consumer groups seem to report modern EVs as pretty good, so long as 60 miles is what you expect. (many makers claim 80+ miles per charge, but of course thats selling propaganda, except Tesla)

For me i hardly drive 50 miles to and from work, and often dont drive on the weekends at all, and for longer trips i have a convention gas car. I do know of the CVT transmission concerns, but im still looking into that.

I wonder if thats tupperware in the center of that pic.

Being the insane person that i am i ask is it possible to cram another battery or cells into the trunk ? the nissan in particular has no active cooling, I also dont want to be a rolling bomb on the freeway with 20 other cars becuase i modded a bucnh of stuff. If i could double the battery mass and go from 60 to 90 "real miles per charge" id feel alot better.

I may not get the leaf, but im looking at one for less than 9 million $ or id just get a Lamborghini.

Hackaday:

thoughts please.

Sulaiman

Thu Jun 01 2017, 12:16PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

I would consider the cost of the battery upgrade ($6,500) and daily recharging vs. cost of hydrocarbon fuel.

e.g. 50 miles/day x 240 days/year = 12,000 miles/year = how $much per year for fuel ?

Also, you are causing new batteries to be manufactured every few years = pollution
if the primary energy source is fossil fuel, EVs do not reduce pollution, they just relocate it :)

hen918

Thu Jun 01 2017, 12:42PM

Registered Member #11591 Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556

Sulaiman wrote ...

I would consider the cost of the battery upgrade ($6,500) and daily recharging vs. cost of hydrocarbon fuel.

e.g. 50 miles/day x 240 days/year = 12,000 miles/year = how $much per year for fuel ?

Also, you are causing new batteries to be manufactured every few years = pollution
if the primary energy source is fossil fuel, EVs do not reduce pollution, they just relocate it :)

As EVs are usually more efficient than equivalent hydrocarbon fuelled cars, even including all the losses in the distribution chain, EVs do end up reducing pollution. As you suggested though, the secondary effects of producing the batteries could end up swinging pollution the other way.

See David MacKay's free ebook Sustainable Energy, Without Hot Air

for lots of information on the subject of sustainable energy.
Unfortunately the PDF version is down, but you can still read the HTML version.

Sulaiman

Thu Jun 01 2017, 02:05PM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

USA; pump price c $0.70 per litre, 20,000 km/year, 10 km/litre = $1,400 p.a. ... qed

In my opinion there is NEVER an environmental benefit in buying a new automobile,
any marginal improvement in CO2/distance is completely insignificant compared to recycling the old vehicle and manufacturing a new one.
(assuming the primary energy sources are fossil fuels)

If you want a new status symbol, go ahead, get a shiny thing,
if you are concerned about the environment, maintain your vehicle.

Uspring

Fri Jun 02 2017, 10:01AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

Patrick wrote:

Here in the US im thinking of getting a used Nissan Leaf all electric car. I see EVs loose there value quickly and are sold at 20,000 miles, often for 9-11k$.

this makes me suspicious,

The reasons are the fast advances in battery technology. Newer cars have more mileage.

Being the insane person that i am i ask is it possible to cram another battery or cells into the trunk ?

Car batteries usually aren't 2 terminal devices. AFAIK there is some considerable amount of electronics involved to keep almost each individual cell happy.

Sulaiman wrote:

USA; pump price c $0.70 per litre, 20,000 km/year, 10 km/litre = $1,400 p.a. ... qed

I'm not sure about current private household electricity prices, so a guess here:
Electricity bill $0.12/kWh, 20,000 km/year, 15kWh/100km = $360 p.a.

From an environmental point of view, it doesn't make much sense to drive an EV, if the electrical energy is generated from power plants utilizing fossil fuel. The fuel can be burned just as well in a car (except coal). There might be a small advantage for EVs due to the higher efficiency of power plants relative to car engines and recuperation in EVs. Electricity in the US comes from about 2/3 from fossil fuel, mostly coal and a bit less from natural gas.

A VW Golf energy bill over its lifetime (200,000km) is about 150,000kWh. 20,000kWh of this is production. My guess at a Leaf would be similar for production and about 30,000kWh for driving, in sum 50,000kWh.

Conundrum

Mon Jun 05 2017, 06:02AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059

Using electric bike at the moment, the real problem with these is the sheer bulk and weight of that Pb based battery pack.

Re. car batteries, this is one of the big reasons Li-ion still have not replaced flooded lead acid for automotive use.
Li-ion do not have the ability to accept overcharge at all, whereas lead acid simply recombine gassed off hydrogen and oxygen within limits.

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