If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #61373
Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 87
Hypothetical Problem: Assuming that both supply's have a limited current output. They would both easily push 1 amp of current through the body. Lets assume the current flowing through the body takes the same path and has the same duration. The amperage of both outputs are the same, but the 1MV supply has 1MW of energy, vs 7,200W. Does the wattage make any difference in the shock also?
What are the differences between the effects if you came onto contact with one vs the other? Assume you come into contact with the outputs before the devices are turned on (to eliminate arc burn effects).
Lets say a Pole Pig supplies the 7,200V and this supplies the 1MV
Registered Member #11591
Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556
A supply can either be current or voltage limited, or one, then the other, like an LED driver. It cannot be both current and voltage limited at the same time. So either it is a 1 A current limited, high voltage supply (the initial high voltage required to cause dielectric breakdown), then the voltage will be likely in the high hundreds to thousands of volts at one amp, assuming arcing occurs, and the bodies' surface resistance is broken down.
A pole pig can supply far higher currents under what would be essentially fault conditions, resulting in higher voltages and much higher destructive power.
It has to be said that a person would almost certainly die in either case though.
In the link provided, the 1 MV was used to break down the air, the voltage across that arc will be significantly less.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Either will kill or seriously injure, what is important is low frequency. High frequency generally cooks tissue(s) so touching a HV anything is a very VERY bad idea because that streamer or others nearby could contact a live mains point incredibly easily. Google "Henry Transtrom"
Registered Member #60240
Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
The important fact is the resistance R of your body. As hen918 already explained if you have a constant voltage source U your current I through the body is U/R. If this current is higher than 100mA you may not survive.The energy/Time is UxU/R [Watt]. now you can calculate this for U = 7000 V and then for U = 1 000 000 V.
If you have a constant current source 1A is ten times the deadly limit. In this case you have IxIxR [Watt].
Registered Member #57401
Joined: Sat Sept 19 2015, 08:06PM
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 10
KrowBar Posted: Tue Feb 21 2017, 11:08AM Looking at this and your other related post I think you have somehow misunderstood the way electricity works. You are over-constraining the problem in your description. Let me use an analogy. I have a 1 HP winch and a 100 HP winch - assume that both have a limited speed so either one can easily lift me at 1 foot per second - let's assume both use the same cable and both connect to me at the same point. So the lifting speed is the same for both cases, but one is putting out 1 HP and the other is putting out 100 HP, so will it feel any different?
Obviously, getting lifted at 1 foot per second will feel the same - either winch is really only "putting out" 0.364 HP to lift my 200 lbs at 1 foot/s. The key unstated parameter which resulted in overspecification was my weight, just as for your case it is the body's resistance. The actual power dissipated by the body in either case will be I^2*R even if the supply is capable of a higher voltage. It will not magically use it's full capability just as the 100 HP winch won't magically do more work lifting a fixed weight at a fixed speed. The power draw is a function of the load. My winch will only experience as much torque as I supply with my weight, just like your current limited supply will only experience as much voltage difference as you supply with the body's resistance. I'm guessing you are just getting confused because you are more used to dealing with constant voltage supplies (Coupled with the fact that truly constant current and constant voltage supplies are both only theoretical concepts - neither exists in reality)
Registered Member #61373
Joined: Sat Dec 17 2016, 01:45PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 87
KrowBar wrote ...
KrowBar Posted: Tue Feb 21 2017, 11:08AM Looking at this and your other related post I think you have somehow misunderstood the way electricity works. You are over-constraining the problem in your description. Let me use an analogy. I have a 1 HP winch and a 100 HP winch - assume that both have a limited speed so either one can easily lift me at 1 foot per second - let's assume both use the same cable and both connect to me at the same point. So the lifting speed is the same for both cases, but one is putting out 1 HP and the other is putting out 100 HP, so will it feel any different?
Obviously, getting lifted at 1 foot per second will feel the same - either winch is really only "putting out" 0.364 HP to lift my 200 lbs at 1 foot/s. The key unstated parameter which resulted in overspecification was my weight, just as for your case it is the body's resistance. The actual power dissipated by the body in either case will be I^2*R even if the supply is capable of a higher voltage. It will not magically use it's full capability just as the 100 HP winch won't magically do more work lifting a fixed weight at a fixed speed. The power draw is a function of the load. My winch will only experience as much torque as I supply with my weight, just like your current limited supply will only experience as much voltage difference as you supply with the body's resistance. I'm guessing you are just getting confused because you are more used to dealing with constant voltage supplies (Coupled with the fact that truly constant current and constant voltage supplies are both only theoretical concepts - neither exists in reality)
That makes it a lot clearer. So the excess voltage/power will just "cruise" through you at 1MV after the body absorbs set amount of energy? Due to the body's resistance, the energy dissipation at set amps will be the same, regardless?
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.
1 Million Volts at 1 Amp vs 7,200 Volts at 1 Amp, Would they do Equal Harm to the Body?
