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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Who has built an HHO generator?

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nzoomed
Sat Dec 10 2016, 08:55PM
nzoomed Registered Member #54503 Joined: Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:35PM
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 288
Im looking at building one to produce gas for welding and probably useful for other experiments also.

Im looking at using a dry plate cell, but others are also driving them with PWM, supposed to increase efficiency this way.

Any tips or advice would be great.
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Carbon_Rod
Sat Dec 10 2016, 11:30PM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
They require about 20% sodium hydroxide by weight with distilled water, and must use 50% alcohol in bubble chamber to reduce the flame temperature to usable levels. Oxyhydrogen torches are used to flame polish acrylic edges, and should not be used on metals for several reasons.
22 Ga stainless-steel dispenser needles work very well as tips, but the flow rate will vary on different machines.

These can be bought with a flash back arrester for about $300 delivered.
Link2

Note a small MIG wire-fed welder is probably better for anything metal, as we use the unit to simulate failing parts.


If you promise to stop using the crank term "HHO", I'd be happy to discuss our experience with its operation.
Cheers wink
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nzoomed
Sun Dec 11 2016, 03:21AM
nzoomed Registered Member #54503 Joined: Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:35PM
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 288
Actually, your right, alot of people seem to call it HHO, which seems to also be used as a pseudo science term a bit like browns gas, but thats what so many people call it, at the end if the day it just refers to the chemical mixture of gases (2 hydrogen and 1 Oxygen)
Ironically, the link you posted me quotes "HHO"

I know you need a beefy power supply to run a decent system, but its supposed to be excellent for welding and should be cheaper than oxy acetylene to run.

I saw them welding with it on a TV documentary on youtube, the guy was able to put the flame over his hand and it did not burn him, yet it would heat steel red hot almost instantly!

I find it interesting that you say you have to reduce the flame temperature to make it workable, yet some people claim that its not hot enough to weld most metals. I disagree with this, but I have read a bit about how hydrogen typically burns cooler than other gases.

I dont know what the story is with sodium hydroxide, not everyone uses it in their systems, supposed to make the water more conductive is it not?
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Carbon_Rod
Sun Dec 11 2016, 04:58AM
Carbon_Rod Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155
"excellent for welding and should be cheaper than oxy acetylene to run."
Nope, it was actually an early welding technique used prior to oxy acetylene, and was replaced as hydrogen often can cause structural failures.
Link2

"the guy was able to put the flame over his hand and it did not burn him"
It was probably boiling off the surface layers of stupid... don't try this at home... the condensing trace sodium hydroxide will probably denature what remains. wink
Link2

"I find it interesting that you say you have to reduce the flame temperature to make it workable"
It can boil/burn/incinerate most metals, and is pretty useless for any sort of welding work.
The hottest zone in the flame is mostly in the UV spectrum apparently, and is thus invisible unless a contaminant is introduced.

"yet some people claim that its not hot enough to weld most metals."
No... most say you shouldn't use it for welding, and they would be right (see first link).

"I dont know what the story is with sodium hydroxide, not everyone uses it in their systems"
That is because they don't know how to balance a simple equation, read an MSDS, and are happy with a contaminated inefficient gas source.


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Dr. Slack
Sun Dec 11 2016, 08:47AM
Dr. Slack Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659
so to clarify ... this is generation of mixed gas, 2:1 H and O, and burning it at a tip, not separate H and O brought together in the flame?

I did once use (mis-use?) an old wet cell car battery to fill a bin bag of the stuff, to shoot firework rockets at from a distance (none hit, I finally had to attach a fuse to it, and then run, the bang was very satisfying).

I guess if the flame speed is low and gas flow high, then flash back can be avoided, but it sounds an easy thing to get wrong or let get out of adjustment.
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nzoomed
Mon Dec 12 2016, 04:41AM
nzoomed Registered Member #54503 Joined: Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:35PM
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 288
Dr. Slack wrote ...

so to clarify ... this is generation of mixed gas, 2:1 H and O, and burning it at a tip, not separate H and O brought together in the flame?

I did once use (mis-use?) an old wet cell car battery to fill a bin bag of the stuff, to shoot firework rockets at from a distance (none hit, I finally had to attach a fuse to it, and then run, the bang was very satisfying).

I guess if the flame speed is low and gas flow high, then flash back can be avoided, but it sounds an easy thing to get wrong or let get out of adjustment.


To seperate oxygen and hydrogen with a typical dry plate cell or any other cell is pretty difficult.

The only way ive seen it done is with a U-Shape chamber made from PVC pipe with an electrode on each end, this is a very slow means of producing the gas, but you have the advantage of collecting the oxygen and hydrogen that builds up at each end, with most other cell designs all the gases are mixed together.

My science teacher fooled around with an interesting cell design made from several sizes of stainless pipe inside each other, I think it was called a joe cell.

It produced quite a bit of gas and we had lots of fun in science class filling balloons with it and igniting them in the classroom!

He also used it to power a small combustion engine.
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