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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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1 kHz Modulation of a 50 kV power supply

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Physikfan
Thu Jul 28 2016, 05:19PM Print
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi

Here are first results of measurements of the modulation of the high voltage output of a 50 kV power supply.
The DC supply voltage for the high voltage power supply is 12.7 V, the modulation frequencies as well as the modulation input voltages are 500 Hz (5 Vss), 1 kHz (5 Vss), and 5 kHz (3 Vss).

The equipment: TEK 6015A, TEK 7854 with 7A26, Y1: 1V/cm, Y2: 5 kV/cm.

The zero line of the high voltage (5kV/cm) is at the bottom of the screen,
the zero line of the modulation voltage (1V/cm) is in the center of the screen.

Modulation frequency is 500 Hz, modulation input voltage is 5 Vss, the high voltage is around 18 kV, the modulation amplitude is about 5 kVss.
7V500Hz400x358

Modulation frequency is 1 kHz, modulation input voltage is 5 Vss, the high voltage is around 20 kV, the modulation amplitude is about 5 kVss.
7V1kHz400x339

modulation frequency is 5 kHz, modulation input voltage is 3 Vss, the high voltage is around 30 kV, the modulation amplitude is about 5 kVss
7V5kHz400x334

At 5 kHz the high voltage amplitude increases up to 30 kV, although the DC supply voltage is still 12.7 V, and the modulation input voltage is only 3 Vss.

I am wondering how to increase the modulation depth.
Please, has somebody some advice to solve this problem?

Regards

Physikfan
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Patrick
Thu Jul 28 2016, 06:57PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
whats generating the 50 kV ?
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Physikfan
Fri Jul 29 2016, 04:02PM
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi Patrick

Here is a picture of the power supply:

50kVpowersupplytrim200x119

Technical data:

Input voltage: 12V - 24V DC
Input current : max . 4A
Output voltage: adjustable 0-30kVDC @ 12V and 24V @ 0-50kVDC
Output voltage is adjustable
Output current limit can be set
modulation input

Regards

Physikfan
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Erlend^SE
Sat Jul 30 2016, 11:33AM
Erlend^SE Registered Member #1565 Joined: Wed Jun 25 2008, 09:08PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 159
Where do you have the 50 kV supply from?

Also, it may need extra load to fall quickly in output voltage.

For plasma speakers, you want power/current modulation, not voltage modulation.
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Physikfan
Sat Jul 30 2016, 02:34PM
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi Erlend^SE

I got this item from:
Link2

regards

Physikfan
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Erlend^SE
Sat Jul 30 2016, 07:48PM
Erlend^SE Registered Member #1565 Joined: Wed Jun 25 2008, 09:08PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 159
How far do you plan to go to improve the supply?

I am building my own, but on the complex side, so it's a slow project.

By the way, what chip is the supply based around?
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Physikfan
Sun Jul 31 2016, 07:30AM
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi Erlend^SE and Patrick

Here are first results of measurements of the modulation of the high voltage output of a 50 kV power supply with a load of 5 MOhm.
The DC supply voltage for the high voltage power supply is 12 V, the modulation frequencies as well as the modulation input voltages are 250 Hz, 500 Hz, and 1 kHz (6 Vss).

The equipment: TEK 6015A, TEK 7854 with 7A26, Y1: 2 V/cm, Y2: 2 kV/cm.

The zero line of the high voltage (2 kV/cm) is at the bottom of the screen,
the zero line of the modulation voltage (2 V/cm) is in the center of the screen.

First picture:
No modulation, supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 1,25 A, load is 5 Mohm, the high voltage is around 6 kV. In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is about 2 kVss.
50kV5Mloadnomodul400x441

Second picture:
Modulation frequency is 250 Hz, modulation input voltage is 6 Vss, DC supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 1,0 A, load is 5 Mohm, the high voltage is around 7 kV, the high voltage modulation amplitude is 2 kVss.
In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is about 2 kVss.
50kV5Mload250Hzmodul400x436

Third picture:
Modulation frequency is 500 Hz, modulation input voltage is 6 Vss, DC supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 0,95 A, load is 5 Mohm, the high voltage is around 5 kV, the high voltage modulation amplitude is 3 kVss.
In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is about 2 kVss.
50kV5Mload500Hzmodul400x438


Fourth picture:
Modulation frequency is 1 kHz, modulation input voltage is 6 Vss, DC supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 1,7 A, load is 5 Mohm, the high voltage is around 11 kVss, the high voltage modulation amplitude is about 8 kVss.
In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is up to 3 kVss.
50kV5Mload1kHzmodul400x466

I am looking forward to your comments.

Regards

Physikfan
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Physikfan
Sun Jul 31 2016, 07:49AM
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi Erlend^SE

Regarding your questions

"How far do you plan to go to improve the supply?"
and
"By the way, what chip is the supply based around?"

I will answer in the evening.

Regards

Physikfan
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Physikfan
Mon Aug 01 2016, 11:24AM
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi Erlend^SE

The chip of the 50 kV power supply is at the following picture.
50kVpowersupplyChiptrim400x204

My plans to improve this circuit are:

1. short term improvement is to create a filter consisting of coils and capacitors to suppress the 20 kHz switching signal
2. long term improvement is to add a feed back loop also to supress the 20 kHz switching signal

But the very next important step will be to increase the voltage range of an AC HV-probe at lest up to 80 or 100 kV.
I will try
1. a combination of an existing TEX P6015 and a high voltage resistor to build a voltage divider 2:1 or 3:1
2. a combination of an existing TEX P6015 and a series of capacitors also to build a voltage divider

Regards

Physikfan
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Physikfan
Mon Aug 01 2016, 11:40AM
Physikfan Registered Member #60240 Joined: Mon May 16 2016, 07:01PM
Location:
Posts: 304
Hi Erlend^SE and Patrick

Here are first results of measurements of the modulation of the high voltage output of a 50 kV power supply with a load of 10 MOhm.
The DC supply voltage for the high voltage power supply is 12 V, the modulation frequencies as well as the modulation input voltages are 250 Hz, 500 Hz, and 1 kHz (6 Vss).

The equipment: TEK 6015A, TEK 7854 with 7A26, Y1: 2 V/cm, Y2: 2 kV/cm.

The zero line of the high voltage (2 kV/cm) is at the bottom of the screen,
the zero line of the modulation voltage (2 V/cm) is in the center of the screen.

First picture:
No modulation, supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 1,25 A, load is 10 Mohm, the high voltage is around 10 kV. In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is about 2 kVss.
50kV10MloadNoModul400x422

Second picture:
Modulation frequency is 250 Hz, modulation input voltage is 6 Vss, DC supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 1,0 A, load is 10 Mohm, the high voltage is around 10 kV, the high voltage modulation amplitude is 4 kVss.
In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is about 2 kVss.
50kV10Mload250HzModul400x440

Third picture:
Modulation frequency is 500 Hz, modulation input voltage is 6 Vss, DC supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 0,95 A, load is 10 Mohm, the high voltage is around 10 kV, the high voltage modulation amplitude is 4 kVss.
In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is about 2 kVss.
50kV10Mload500HzModul400x428


Fourth picture:
Modulation frequency is 1 kHz, modulation input voltage is 6 Vss, DC supply voltage is 12 V, input current is 1,7 A, load is 10 Mohm, the high voltage is around 14 kVss, the high voltage modulation amplitude is about 8 kVss.
In addtion the oscillation amplitude from the switching frequency at 20 kHz is up to 3 kVss.
50kV10Mload1kHzModul400x407
I am looking forward to your comments.

Regards

Physikfan
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