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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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Use water glass as HV insulator?

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Conundrum
Wed Mar 28 2012, 06:46AM Print
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
Hi all.

Just had an idea, could water glass (aka sodium silicate) be used to insulate say a cardboard secondary former to use it for high voltage applications?

This would be particularly useful as it has a surface consistency similar to glass, yet chemically identical.
It does have some sodium ions present but this isn't likely to be as big a problem as usual.

Tried it with a piece of copper and EL phosphor, which glows as bright as usual under UV once the water glass has cured with mild heating < 70C for a few hours.

Comments?
(plus its a heck of a lot cheaper than Epoxy and substantially less toxic)
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Patrick
Wed Mar 28 2012, 07:35AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
we used sodium glass in chemistry class for all the least sensitve reactions, is that the same stuff?
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Proud Mary
Wed Mar 28 2012, 11:38AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
"When completely dehydrated, sodium and potassium silicates exhibit good dielectric properties."

Extracted from: Link2
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Ben Solon
Wed Mar 28 2012, 05:35PM
Ben Solon Registered Member #3900 Joined: Thu May 19 2011, 08:28PM
Location:
Posts: 600
As stated, when dry, it should work well. Just watch out for surface tracking. While glass doesn't conduct, it allows surface tracking easier than say, a plastic or film dielectric.
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radiotech
Wed Mar 28 2012, 07:25PM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
I have some glass pH probes Do they conduct?
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Bored Chemist
Wed Mar 28 2012, 08:00PM
Bored Chemist Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022
radiotech wrote ...

I have some glass pH probes Do they conduct?
Yes, but probably very badly.
I don't know about water glass, but fire cement is a fairly good insulator and the binder in it is sodium silicate.
However, be warned, when it gets hot it conducts quite well (like ordinary glass), which could lead to thermal runaway.
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Pinky's Brain
Wed Mar 28 2012, 08:18PM
Pinky&#039;s Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
Does a sodium silicate solution naturally produce a continuous polycrystalline film during dehydration? If it creates flakes or scales it won't be much use obviously.
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Proud Mary
Thu Mar 29 2012, 09:04AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Pinky's Brain wrote ...

Does a sodium silicate solution naturally produce a continuous polycrystalline film during dehydration? If it creates flakes or scales it won't be much use obviously.

The exact properties of a sodium silicate glass depend on its SiO2/Na2O ratio, but all are polymeric and water-soluble.
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Conundrum
Fri Mar 30 2012, 06:42AM
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4059
hm..
So I'd need to insulate it with Epoxy as well.
Still, an interesting experiment to try as putting it between two sheets of real glass then insulating the edges could work well for all sorts of applications.
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Proud Mary
Fri Mar 30 2012, 07:57AM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
You'll like this one, André. Tells you how to make doped silicate layers using very simple methods.

Montaser M et al: ZnO doped sodium silicate preionize N2 Laser Chinese Physics Letters Vol 6, No. 11, (1989) 491

Which you can download here: Link2
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