Welcome
Username:

Password:


Remember me

[ ]
[ ]
Online
Guests: 12, Members: 3 ...
johnf viewing forum.php
Alex1M6 viewing forum.php
TwirlyWhirly555 viewing forum.php

most ever online: 333
(Members: 3, Guests: 330) on 06 Jun : 15:15

Members: 2694
Newest member: vladi mazzilli
Members Birthdays:
No birthdays today

Next birthdays
09/19 raff (37)
09/20 PYLEMET-mk2 (25)
09/21 Bill G (54)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated within the last three months. Green bold denotes those who have donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • Vaxian
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: Projects
<< Previous thread | Next thread >>   

Full-wave X-Ray generator

Author Post
Linas
Sat May 21 2011, 03:47PM Print View
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
Here is my first and last one x-ray generator
It contains 100KV 10mA oil cooled x ray tube, 2KW IR2153 SMPS, 2-phase 15KV 0,05A HF transformers, high power full wave 8x voltage multiplier for low ripple voltages, and 1500pcs of 3mA 50ns 0,5Apeak diodes, and filament supply
Few photos:
X ray tube



capacitors for full-wave multiplier:



Diodes 14KV 50ns 3mA 0,5Apeak:



40A SMPS IR2153:



Diodes:



HV power transformers:



Just before layer of paraffin:



Full-setup (no HV transformers jet):



Final product:



Test photos:
Canon lens:



FAN's:



LED flashlight:



Siemens C25:



Sony Ericsson w960i:



Old style w960i:



C25:






Back to top
Wolfram
Sat May 21 2011, 04:10PM
Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location:
Posts: 861
Nice results, and very solidly built project.

What is the focal spot size of the tube?

The last two x-rays, are they on film or photographic paper?

Back to top
Linas
Sat May 21 2011, 04:21PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
I don't know, still need to find it. as you can see i get sharp-less photos, just with x-ray film i get quite nice results
Konica Minolta x ray film MG-SR
Back to top
Wolfram
Sat May 21 2011, 04:31PM
Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location:
Posts: 861
Ok, if you're interested, I can give you a tip to get higher resolution x-rays. Resolution like this example should be possible with your x-ray generator.

I would guess the focal spot size is around a millimeter, judging from the anode angle and rated current. What voltage and current are you running at?
Back to top
Linas
Sat May 21 2011, 04:35PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
Anders M. wrote ...

Ok, if you're interested, I can give you a tip to get higher resolution x-rays. Resolution like this example should be possible with your x-ray generator.

I would guess the focal spot size is around a millimeter, judging from the anode angle and rated current. What voltage and current are you running at?

I don't know,
First i am using low filament current to get as high x-ray energy as possible, and drawing around 60-80W at full power.( for safety reasons)
nice picture, just question how to make that ?
Back to top
Wolfram
Sat May 21 2011, 04:42PM
Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location:
Posts: 861
Did you use the film in an intensifying cassette? Those tend to really limit the resolution, with the "Ultra fast" or "Ultra rapid" ones being the worst, and the "Fine" or "Detail" ones, being the best. Mammography cassettes are even higher resolution, but they should only be used with mammography film (emulsion on one side only, like normal photographic film), since they only have a single fluorescent screen (this is one of the reasons that they have higher resolution). Direct film exposure, without an intensifying screen, gives by far the highest resolution. The picture I linked to in the last post is a direct exposure. This also requires much longer exposure time. You can also get limited resolution if the x-ray tube is close to the object you're x-raying, especially if the focal spot is large. Increase the distance, but not too much (inverse square law), somewhere between 50cm and 100cm from tube to object is a nice compromise.
Back to top
Linas
Sat May 21 2011, 05:22PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
it looks like i am getting 0,6-1mA 80-100Kv for tube...
just made some measurements. but i don't know how accurate they are since multimeter is electronic...
And yes, i was using intensifying screen to make photos with film, maybe i need to try without them later
Back to top
Wolfram
Sat May 21 2011, 05:41PM
Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 01:31PM
Location:
Posts: 861
With a direct film exposure, remember that you need a much longer exposure time, probably 10-20 times as long as with the intensifying cassette, maybe even longer. A minute or two in your case I guess, depending on the distance between the tube and the film.
Back to top
Linas
Thu Jun 16 2011, 06:46PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
my notebook. at 2s exp time

Back to top
Thomas W
Thu Jun 16 2011, 09:31PM
Registered Member #3324
Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location: UK, Dorset, Broadstone
Posts: 1177
thats realy cool better then anything i could make :D
Back to top
radhoo
Fri Jun 17 2011, 12:46PM
Registered Member #1938
Joined: Sun Jan 25 2009, 12:44PM
Location: Romania
Posts: 684
great setup! I like the very compact size,

what's the cost of the diodes you've used?
Back to top
Linas
Fri Jun 17 2011, 02:54PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
radhoo wrote ...


what's the cost of the diodes you've used?


low, few cents per diode
Back to top
radhoo
Thu Jul 07 2011, 06:13AM
Registered Member #1938
Joined: Sun Jan 25 2009, 12:44PM
Location: Romania
Posts: 684
I would need to buy some, is there a good source you can recommand?
Back to top
Linas
Thu Jul 07 2011, 12:06PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641

Anders M. wrote ...

Ok, if you're interested, I can give you a tip to get higher resolution x-rays. Resolution like this example should be possible with your x-ray generator.

i tried to to the same, and i was amazed by quality of picture ( but, my IR2153 keep dieing after 30s of hard work, i don't know why,
( i am using 8nF Cgs 40A mosfet's, and 5R resistor with diode, now i will use IRFP460A it has 3x lower Cgs and higher speed too, also i will add some zener's at gate ( around 18V)
And that was just 34s at around 300W and 1m distance from tube, so picture still need some exposition (like 2x longer)
i was able to see all fibers in microchips etc...



Hey, i was able to see in atomic level ( crystallography )
soon i will upload picture :)
and here it is :)



And it is perfect crystal diffraction pattern, just guess where i get it ?
yes from semiconductor. i was able to remove nice peace from power mosfet, after cleaning top and bottom i get nice looking peace of ideal
silicon crystal

and here is my Wlan Router D-link




again, quality in real world is better, but scanner can't take all this quality into jpg
and it is without intensifying screen, direct 2min exposure at ~120W
Back to top
radhoo
Fri Jul 08 2011, 08:26PM
Registered Member #1938
Joined: Sun Jan 25 2009, 12:44PM
Location: Romania
Posts: 684
radhoo wrote ...

I would need to buy some, is there a good source you can recommand?

any idea?
Back to top
Linas
Fri Jul 08 2011, 08:44PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
radhoo wrote ...

radhoo wrote ...

I would need to buy some, is there a good source you can recommand?

any idea?

i know man who selling it, buts is not online, you can get i from me
(closed fabric, so they sell all parts for low price, and they have lot of thees diodes,)
Back to top
Xray
Sun Jul 10 2011, 05:04AM
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
Linas wrote ...

my notebook. at 2s exp time




Nice job, and great looking radiographs! I was wondering how you mounted the X-ray tube. Is it imersed in oil? Also, did you filter the beam with aluminum?
Back to top
Linas
Sun Jul 10 2011, 08:34AM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
Xray wrote ...

Nice job, and great looking radiographs! I was wondering how you mounted the X-ray tube. Is it immersed in oil? Also, did you filter the beam with aluminum?

yes, tube is in oil, not much, bat i can feel than tube start to warm up.
Is aluminum filtering is any good ? ( how much impact it will have to picture quality ? )
Back to top
Xray
Tue Jul 12 2011, 03:11PM
Registered Member #3429
Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
Linas wrote ...


yes, tube is in oil, not much, bat i can feel than tube start to warm up.
Is aluminum filtering is any good ? ( how much impact it will have to picture quality ? )



All X-ray heads that are used for X-raying living tissue (humans and animals) are required to have a specified thickness of aluminum (and/or copper, depending on KV) directly in the beam path, usually at the beam exit port. The filter attenuates the low-energy (non-penetrating) photons which do not aid in producing the image, but can burn the skin, resulting in cancer and other proplems. Since you are not X-raying living tissue (I assume that you are not licensed to do so) then your X-ray head does not need a filter.
Back to top
Proud Mary
Tue Jul 12 2011, 05:59PM
Registered Member #543
Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4803
Xray wrote ...

Linas wrote ...


yes, tube is in oil, not much, bat i can feel than tube start to warm up.
Is aluminum filtering is any good ? ( how much impact it will have to picture quality ? )



All X-ray heads that are used for X-raying living tissue (humans and animals) are required to have a specified thickness of aluminum (and/or copper, depending on KV) directly in the beam path, usually at the beam exit port. The filter attenuates the low-energy (non-penetrating) photons which do not aid in producing the image, but can burn the skin, resulting in cancer and other proplems. Since you are not X-raying living tissue (I assume that you are not licensed to do so) then your X-ray head does not need a filter.


Spot on there, but let's not forget another important reason for filtering out low energy photons in everyday industrial image forming systems* - namely sharpness, contrast and fine detail resolution because:

Photoelectric scattering increases as impacting photon energy falls. The lower the incident X-ray energy, the more the beam will be scattered as it passes through the air, through the specimen, and so on.

Re-radiation of low energy X-rays can occur from any of the elements in the primary X-ray path - the metal tube housing for example. These photons can impact on the imaging device from any number of angles, degrading the integrity of the anode focal spot as a single point source..

Anti-scatter grids are sometimes used to improve image sharpness and contrast. These grids are effectively thousands of collimators in parallel, and absorb those photons that are not in line to make a (near) right-angle strike on the imaging device. (Imagine a honeycomb structure made from heavy metal alloys or laminates - people are always patenting improved designs aimed at reducing primary X-ray attenuation by the grid, which can reach 50% on a bad hair day.)

*There are, of course, both Low Energy and Very Low Energy X-ray imaging systems, but these are seldom seen outside the laboratory.

Back to top
Patrick
Wed Jul 13 2011, 02:36AM
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 4318
I really need to look at all this Xray stuff, i really need this kind of capability for potted HV stuff and so on. I just need to be sure im not killing myself or the neighbors. Some of those pics are just so cool too!!!
Back to top
Linas
Tue Aug 02 2011, 01:04PM
Registered Member #1143
Joined: Sun Nov 25 2007, 04:55PM
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 641
get some new stuff for this project:
lot of Pb shealding, also get wolfram and cadmium sheets for x ray stopping sandwich :)
and new 60KV 40mA oil cooled tube :)



new 140kv 4KW CW (for 10min ) tube with water cooling, but i will use at 2KW and oil cooling
Back to top

Moderators: Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Bjørn, Dave Billington, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Mads Barnkob

Jump:     Back to top

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.